Grant Hughes Ultra Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
John Vanlandingham Mega Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Alex Staidle Mod Moderator Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Join Date: 08/21/2009 Age: Settling Down Posts: 1,719 Rally Car: Various Heaps |
Blake Lind Junior Moderator Location: Hillsboro Oregon Join Date: 06/09/2009 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 233 Rally Car: orange AE86 |
John Vanlandingham Mega Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Ian Seppanen Infallible Moderator Location: Esko, MN Join Date: 10/19/2011 Age: Settling Down Posts: 149 Rally Car: 1991 Nissan 240SX |
AaronJMcConnell Mega Moderator Location: Evergreen Colorado Join Date: 04/11/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 76 Rally Car: Subaru Impreza |
------------------------------------------------- Elite Moderator Location: ------------------------------------------------ Join Date: 07/25/2008 Posts: 157 Rally Car: ------------------------- |
John Vanlandingham Mega Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Banned Senior Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Just curious... (seriously) what has been changed by so many? First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015 
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John Vanlandingham Mega Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Banned Senior Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Fine, let me take a crack and figuring out what you would rather only hint at: I think about the Spitzner era where age limits were imposed on cars entered in the national events and, I believe, basic standards for presentation and 'look' of teams were pushed down on the national championship. Age limits are a mistake, and are long gone. Trying to make everyone look a bit more professional isn't a bad thing - and isn't being officially done today either. Beyond that, I also see (relatively) high entry fees for Rally America national events and a dollar race at the leading edge of the pack these days. One is driven by the sanctioning body and the services they bring to the events and the other is driven by an open rule-set and competitor desire. It has been fairly obvious that you're not a fan Rally America but from everything I've seen from them I think they are honestly doing what they think is right for the sport. Maybe I'm missing hidden agendas, maybe I'm missing some persecution, but as a whole I like what I've seen from RA. Do I think the traveling circus may be a bit bloated? maybe, but they bring efficient and personable staff to handle aspects of national events that are difficult to get done within a lot of org. committees. Then, of course, there is the X-Treme athlete fad that brought several high dollar / high visibility efforts to the championship. Other than raising the bar with the cars they brought out I don't really know what negatives are associated with them. I don't think their presence did much other than bring a new group of spectators to the sport (who have, generally, stuck around.) Maybe my perspective is skewed by Canadian Rally where we've had broadcast TV deals for most of the last 20 years and where the community as a whole values the TV shows as one of the key feeders to the sport. (Many will complain that only a few teams get 'TV Time,' but those are generally teams that either don't travel or don't perform.) So, in all seriousness, tell me what I'm missing and tell me what "has been changed by so many all to accommodate the 'promise' of Paradise just around the corner 'if only we get 3-4 guys on TV, I'll have to turn away the big corporate sponsors." First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2012 02:04AM by Morison. |
Anders Green Godlike Moderator Location: Raleigh, NC Join Date: 03/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,478 Rally Car: Parked |
Andrew Steere Mega Moderator Location: South Central Nude Hamster Join Date: 12/29/2005 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 2,008 Rally Car: too rich for my blood, share a LeMons car |
Hmmmm, a Hitler rant meme theme might be interesting for LeMons. [files that away]
I started a LeMons team with a friend because we could get out on a track (which isn't the woods...but at least I can drive "flat out"  for, well...let me think. We cheated and bought a running XR4Ti for $350 to start. Not including (cheap SFI 5 Pyrotect) suits and helmets, and INCLUDING entry fees we were on the track for less than $4,500 and got 14.5 hours and about 700 miles of track time shared amongst four drivers (OK, maybe an hour or two less due to pit stops and repairs).
The car is pretty well sorted already, and with a residual value of $400 after the event, we can't do too much to it anyway. I kind of enjoy the challenges of making a car go kind of OK for no money. I've just tracked down a backup drivetrain for $200. We have our Merkurian Falcon Star Wars themed car (we need to turn up the wick on the theme for the fall...guess I need to sell some plasma and get a Chewbacca costume), but run a silly car (not an 3-series BMW or Miata...or run Chump) and you can concentrate more on playing with the car and less on the silliness if that's what you want. Short of something that only involves turning left, it's tough to find a much better dollar to smile ratio. Entry was something like 75 cars for the one this spring in NH, and that's on the low side compared to the west coast events. Would I rather be on gravel? Yeah. But the only way I could do it on my budget would be co-driving, and frankly with notes that's too much like filing TPS reports in triplicate, so that's a no-go for me. LeMons and Chump are on to something...how to translate that to rally? Andrew Steere Lyndeborough, NH KB1PJY |
Banned Senior Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Good thing this is a web forum and not a peer reviewed paper then! The biggest part of what I was saying was that no sanctioning body has any rules that force a professional image on teams beyond rules that require cars to 'presentable.' (Not rusted out, no primer etc.) even then, those rules are rarely enforced to the point of being the sole reason for not letting a car run. And what problem is that? The declining number of event entries? You regularly talk about that as being a universal problem while you discount the fact that in Western Canada for sure, our regional championship is seeing record high entry levels. The biggest publicity for the sport in Canada, and the initial exposure for many of our new teams and volunteers, is the TV show that focuses on the top two or three teams. This may not counter you opinion but it certainly doesn't do anything to support it. (In fact, doesn't the fall in entries also match the time period where there have been multiple sanctioning bodies in the States? Wasn't the high point at a time where there were multiple factory teams?) But in all of this I still can't be sure of what, according to John, "has been changed by so many." When I look at the sport in my back yard I have seen teams go from the 'fancy' teams having a cube and a trailer and running on pump gas with octane boosters to a third of the field having enclosed trailers and running on race gas. NONE of this has been driven by the sanctioning bodies or organizers (in fact enclosed trailers have reached the point of being a problem for organizers) it has all been pushed by the competitors. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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