I am really getting tired of seeing thread after thread get derailed because of petty, childish behaviour.

I don't mean to suggest I'd like to see Rally Anarchy become some overly polite uber-sanitised place where people are afraid to question, discuss or even (politely) argue different positions.

It has been suggested that we should behave just as we would if we were standing around the workshop shooting the shit over a couple beers. I think that's what we all want, but we seem to disagree about what that means.

To me, that means it is OK to question what you hear, it is OK to call bullshit when you hear it and it is OK to poke fun at your friends and event call someone out for bad behaviour. That's all a part of good 'adult' conversation.

I also think most of us would agree that some of the name calling and personal attacks we've seen lately wouldn't be acceptable amongst a group of friends sitting around the shop and shouldn't be acceptable here either.

So... here's the question.

How do we collectively work to make the bullshit stop?

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Mostly I just ignore all y'all.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

People have to give up their personal grudges,vendettas and crusades against others. So, if you have a certain person or persons you routinely personally attack whenever the chance arises, you need to stop.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Which individual has been banned on how many other internet bulletin boards due to it's online behavior?

Pull that weed a month at a time when it behaves badly or ban it altogether.

I've not seen it act that way in person. Prolly cuz it would get it's bell rung for it.

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

Quote
Dazed_Driver
People have to give up their personal grudges,vendettas and crusades against others. So, if you have a certain person or persons you routinely personally attack whenever the chance arises, you need to stop.

Read your signature line.... Think you will get that troll to let anything go?

History tells that story.

I just want it to take care of a problem it has been avoiding for too long now. Nothing more. It gets personal every time.

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

I guess I should have expected this... I was hoping for better. Really, I was.

John (Lane):
Leave that issue at the door.
If you think you have a legitemate claim against john then take it to court. If you don't have the documentation to support the claim in small claims court (or The People's Court for that matter) then take your lumps for doing any sort of deal on a handshake.

Referring to JVL as 'it' is about as mature as his blind, foul name-calling.

I have an idea.

Why don't we all agree to a simple fundimental principle.

- If you can't treat the people in a coversation with the same basic respect you'd treat a complete stranger, then don't bother getting involved in the conversation.

So... you might have no respect for an individual based on history between the two of you BUT as a part of any group discussion you leave that out of the discussion and stay to the topic at hand.

John (Lane), your post is out of line, even if the sentiment behind it isn't. Rather than attack the individual you could have pointed to the very few rules the forum does have and strongly suggested that they be applied with an even hand. But, there is the reality that this forum is certainly percieved as a place of exile for JVL and asking for him to be 'oaf-ish-ally' chastised in any way would be like asking the sun to not rise for a day. Deal with it.

That doesn't mean that we can't all agree to try and make this a kinder, gentler, more enjoyable place where open discussions and the exchange of diverse ideas can flourish... does it?

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
Morison
I guess I should have expected this... I was hoping for better. Really, I was.

Quote


The day is young Keith.... Hope springs eternal. You can refer to me as JL if you wish....
I'm perfectly happy to have what can be colorful discussions with folks on many and varied subjects... Passionate discussions at times.... Sorry that my humor rubs you wrong. I've none-zero-zip-nadda respect for JVL. He's done that. Went to a tremendous effort at getting there.... What you read in that other thread that he did.... He's done that countless times....

Quote
Morison
John (Lane):
Leave that issue at the door.
If you think you have a legitemate claim against john then take it to court. If you don't have the documentation to support the claim in small claims court (or The People's Court for that matter) then take your lumps for doing any sort of deal on a handshake.

Sorry Keith and others that my doing that got feathers ruffled. He needs to deal with me. He will one way or another.

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Morison
Referring to JVL as 'it' is about as mature as his blind, foul name-calling.

You believe that to be as foul as the ish + lies he's said of me? really? We'll disagree on that one.

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Morison
I have an idea.

I'm on the edge of my seat!

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Morison
Why don't we all agree to a simple fundamental principle.

- If you can't treat the people in a coversation with the same basic respect you'd treat a complete stranger, then don't bother getting involved in the conversation.

Keith humor doesn't come through the keyboard well. I believe that you likely are aware that my mentioning that 'I'm on the edge of my seat' is intended as humor. The ish JVL pulls.... He's just the bully online to anyone he sees fit to toss his garbage at online. I watch some of you here dance on eggshells making sure that you don't dare touch any of his myriad hotbuttons...... Come on! At the end of the day he's been banned everywhere else due to his behavior. He can behave himself. He does not here due to it being tolerated to encouraged.

Quote
Morison
So... you might have no respect for an individual based on history between the two of you BUT as a part of any group discussion you leave that out of the discussion and stay to the topic at hand.

I'm mostly delighted to. Let's see how he does with it. History tells that story. Watch. You'll see.

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Morison
That doesn't mean that we can't all agree to try and make this a kinder, gentler, more enjoyable place where open discussions and the exchange of diverse ideas can flourish... does it?

Sure; until the next time someone steps on one of his hot buttons. Sorry; I call a spade a spade.

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

Quote
Morison
I am really getting tired of seeing thread after thread get derailed because of petty, childish behaviour.

I don't mean to suggest I'd like to see Rally Anarchy become some overly polite uber-sanitised place where people are afraid to question, discuss or even (politely) argue different positions.

It has been suggested that we should behave just as we would if we were standing around the workshop shooting the shit over a couple beers. I think that's what we all want, but we seem to disagree about what that means.

To me, that means it is OK to question what you hear, it is OK to call bullshit when you hear it and it is OK to poke fun at your friends and event call someone out for bad behaviour. That's all a part of good 'adult' conversation.

I also think most of us would agree that some of the name calling and personal attacks we've seen lately wouldn't be acceptable amongst a group of friends sitting around the shop and shouldn't be acceptable here either.

So... here's the question.

How do we collectively work to make the bullshit stop?

YOUR MOM GOES TO COLLEGE!!!!!!!!!!!




Sorry, I had to, I just couldn't help myself.

Quote
hoche
Mostly I just ignore all y'all.

^This

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I Seppanen, Car #240

I'll applaud your effort and concerns Keith. It gets hard to deal with the repeated degeneration of threads.

Everyone who visits has something to offer, whether it is experience, a different view, a new question to make us think. Many people don't post here because of 'fear' a certain someone will unleash his fury on the keyboard..and Lane is correct in that persons behavior is rarely like that in person.

In John Lanes defense (not that he needs me to defend him) but I've had the privelage of:
Snagging his helmet at tech
Pulling his time card because of a broken windshield
Chewing his ass out for speeding on a transit
and offering to kick said ass up between his shoulder blades if he offered Ray Damitio the co-drivers seat again....(Ray dearly loved racing with John even tho it pained hime greatly)
Mr. Lane is the epitamy of a gentleman, nutin but glass in my dealings with him. I've seen several times he has offered up good advice here and JV has jumped right in the middle of his shit with no provocation..much like he does to Keith or Timm. So I'd allow JL his moments on the soap box with no reservations myself.

At the end of the day it'll likely be easier to just quit participating here than to try and correct a bad situation. As a society we have and need checks and balances. It may be a cop saving a life or giving a ticket, an usher in a theater, someone clearing their throat when seeing a child steal a piece of candy. Not everyone chooses to behave correctly in a polite and considerate way. Discussion and disagreements need not deteriorate into the vile name calling someone likes to do.

I'm fine with answering technical emails and any other questions..phone works too. Seems like much of the old forum need is being taken over by Facebook anyway.

So my vote is to just turn the place into the 24/7 JVL infomercial he strives to make it.

Gene thanks for your kind words.... Ray and I sure did have a blast..... Hee-hee!! What a way for Ray to finish up Rallying... Brings a smile.
Ray was very kind in allowing Me to drive the Geo with Vance Co-Conspiring one year.... 'Fast Pace' :rofl: We wrung out the Geo!

Back on topic... It has been my experience that letting an online bully get away with the garbage he pulls time and again only makes him more bold...... Chases off those who are not willing to 'beat back' the endless walls of text; not to mention the plethora of personal attacks/name calling that are soo utterly over the top and that (in his case) he delights in taking elsewhere to spread more lies/bullshit et al.

He made clear enough that he sees RallyAnarchy as being His Sandbox and that I'm to leave.

My simple answer.... "No."

Other bulletin boards ban people who behave as he does. Much more peaceful for it.

Why do you guys put up with him?

Gentleman..... I've not any issue with any of you except for JVL and that is only due to how he handles problems with his products, money owed to me and how he behaves online. I would be delighted if he would just man-up, answer the telephone or call me so that we can get things finished and there were no more need for any of it..... He refuses.

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

People need to communicate the same way in the forum as they do face to face. If they can't handle that then they need to go to the sin bin. Just like any other forum we need a moderator. Failing that we could also vote.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

if/when I see people on here going back and forth with each other, I just scroll past and figure that I'm probably not missing anything



I come from a board that makes certain posters here look like pussy cats. I do the same thing there. If they have something to say I wanna read, I read it. If they don't, I move along. The great thing about the written word is that no one is forcing any of us to read stuff we don't like and we certainly don't have to reply to it (no matter how much we may want to).

Here, like there, I can still have a great time and enjoy myself. It's really not hard for me to skip the negative shit and move on to the good stuff. If the day comes when I feel there's no good stuff, well then I'll stop coming. So far the good by far outweighs any of the bad imo


So, I guess my answer is, you don't make it stop, you simply make it stop for yourself by chosing your own content and letting go and looking past that which you do not like.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2012 10:09PM by 12xalt.

Quote
JohnLane
I would be delighted if he would just man-up, answer the telephone or call me so that we can get things finished and there were no more need for any of it..... He refuses.

I've come here for a while now trying to understand some things that were taken from me. Priceless things like trust, respect and many fold over what your financial losses have been. I've cried many times seeing things that opened old wounds. I've laughed as I've made new friends who have reminded me of my brother when we were kids. In fact I've laughed a lot which has been the best medicine for me! And...of course I've learned about cars a whole, whole lot about cars. Everyone finds peace with their troubles in different ways I gain mine through understanding and forgiveness. Maybe the two of you can do the same.

I was on the other line with John this weekend when you called. "What are the best roads to the Hoh Rainforest", "I'm exhausted from my job and need a break", "how are you and how is the family". Maybe it would help a little to know he was a gentleman by choosing to listen to me instead of taking your call. Maybe it will also help to know that I'm confident he would be open to talking with you or listening. Something more productive than this maybe?

Still trying to figure out badgrl2's real name! Unfortunately, I think she's a moderator here.

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.