Should we change the 'rules' as indicated in the 'Read This First' sticky?

Poll

Should we change the 'rules'

Only registered users are allowed to vote for this poll.
17 votes were received.

Yes: Personal attacks don't have a place here anyway	2		12%
No: Don't tae away my right to freedom of expression	12		71%
Yes: But I don't expect the rule to be enforced any time soon.	3		17%

---

There seems to be a general consensus that we would like Rally Anarchy to be a kinder, gentler place to come.

To that effect... Should we ask that the 'rule' be changed as follows?

From:
"That's not to say there aren't any rules here. On the contrary, one sure fire way to get booted is to act consistently stupid or take personal attacks too far."

To:
That's not to say there aren't any rules here. On the contrary, one sure fire way to get booted is to act consistently stupid or make personal attacks that aren't clearly rooted in humour, and perceived as such by the subject of the attack.

Pointless? Probably, particularly since JVL hasn't bothered to join in the other discussion thread on how to stop the bullshit (at the time of writing.) But, if we all agree on what we 'expect' as acceptable behaviour then maybe, just maybe, it will help make some changes in attitude.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2012 10:03PM by Morison.

This poal has teh fail because no bacon option.

And because of that, you'll have to watch Gymkhana 4, which has the Epic Meal Time guys in it, and even though they're a bunch of brotato flat billers, they do like their bacon, preferably with Jack Daniels.

---

Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

poll option for me should really read...

no, don't take away my option to chose to read what I want and for me to chose to skip over what doesn't interest me

I don't need someone to hold my hand and if someone comes at me with internet fists flying I have the option to just move on past it and leave it be and to control myself enough not to throw internet punches back. I can self monitor.

Would this place be better if others could too? Sure. But if they are or aren't isn't my concern. I am my own concern and as long as I take care of me, then it's all good.

mmmmm bacon om nom nom

Quote
12xalt
no, don't take away my option to chose to read what I want and for me to chose to skip over what doesn't interest me

The problem is that the bullyinig behavior of some on here stifles participation from some, particularly from people with differing opinions. In my mind, that's a bad thing.
It isn't that people can't ignore being treated poorly, it is just so much easier to not bother with coming here in the first place.
Do you want this to be a place that fosters discussion of a diverse range of ideas or do you want it to be a place where parroting the 'safe' view is the best approach?

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Keith hows about making use of the 'Sin Bin' for the offending party?

Worked for Morten.

There is also the possibility that JVL may be getting the message about his online behavior.

Perhaps he would be so good as to share his thoughts on the subject.

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

Quote
JohnLane
Keith hows about making use of the 'Sin Bin' for the offending parties?

Fixed that for you... While JVL is certainly an example of someone who regularly steps over the line, in my opinion, I really am talking in generalities here. I'm talking about 'cleaning up the neighborhood' if you will.

Fundamentaly I'm talking about lowering and clearly defining the bar for the Sin Bin. At the moment the 'rules' say that taking personal attacks "too far" would warrant some time in the Sin Bin "If you are convicted by a jury of your peers."

Arguably, "too far" is a judgement call. I'm suggesting that personal attacks be taken off the table of communications tools alltogether. Afterall, what could they POSSIBLY add to the conversation? Even so, at the end of the day the decision would be made by a 'jury of your peers.' (Although that is undefined, I'd take that to mean the forum 'community' as a whole.)

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
Morison
There seems to be a general consensus that we would like Rally Anarchy to be a kinder, gentler place to come.

There does? Two or three people out of 400+ users?

Meh. I with Mirrilee. Policing the internet takes up a lot of time, and my scroll bar still works in all my browsers, allowing me to very quickly slide past anything that doesn't look interesting.

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Could not have said it better Anders.



Most of the "personal attacks" I've seen here seem to be warrented by both sides.

---

Jason McDaniel

Quote
Morison

Quote
12xalt
no, don't take away my option to chose to read what I want and for me to chose to skip over what doesn't interest me

The problem is that the bullyinig behavior of some on here stifles participation from some, particularly from people with differing opinions. In my mind, that's a bad thing.
It isn't that people can't ignore being treated poorly, it is just so much easier to not bother with coming here in the first place.
Do you want this to be a place that fosters discussion of a diverse range of ideas or do you want it to be a place where parroting the 'safe' view is the best approach?

many of us migrated here because we wanted a place where we could be free of the extreme PC-ness of other sites, if we go down the road you are suggesting, someone else will have to build another site and call it something else so we can all migrate there and only occasionally stop by here

for those who are (I'm trying to think of a nice word for weak) sensitive there are plenty of places in the big wide internet world for them to feel (trying to think of a nice word for coddled) safe

the thing is that most of us, though we don't like it when we have to scroll past a bunch of bs, don't believe that the freedom to post such bs should be crushed

I get that this is still, sort of, a discussion, I'm to the point where I'm starting to see the whining about the bs posts to be as bad as the bs posts and will probably just start ignoring them too, though I will still completely support any person's right to complain just as much as I'll support any person's right to type up a bunch of dog shit, I will simply skip both, it's no harm done to me, I'll just have to brush up on my super uber skimming for content skills

First to consider...this (and all) forums are owned by somone. Even if a group is in charge it is still under ownership and the majority of the particiapants are guests. We have a reasonable expectation of good behavior form others but no right to it. I don't know that it is fair to Skye to pressure him to chastise JV on this forum.

I really dislike the attacks when JV gets wound up and he doesn't do that in person so he can stop it. It is a conscious decision on his part.

I really dislike his contrived sense of humor, mis-spoken, mis-spelled giberish. Kind of a blend of Sam Kinison, The Swedish Chef and Randy "Macho Man' Savage.

I really, really dislike when the crap starts and so much potential good info gets lost in a stupis thread or someone quietly goes away we haven't even met yet.

I like JV personally, admire his abilities to analyse mechanical things and fabricate most anything. He is a MuttGiver for sure and that is pretty rare in these "I can't tie velcro shoes days". We settled any perceived differences long ago and I totally appreciate him, yet I'm willing to argue with him when needed.

Obviously banning him never accomplished more than losing his particiapation in that forum.

So....John, budy, pal, fellow motorsport enthusiast and old fart. Knock the shit off! You forget that every time you do the horses ass deal potential customers walk away. You're not as funny as you think, your clever mis-wording gets old (and not clever) and you constantly say people don't understand what you meant or the context..well BS. Language=communication. Not our job to try and see thru the smoke screen, it is your job to present your thoughts in a more concise manner..which you are more than bright enough to do. If you're being mis-understood then you need to change how you present what you say. You can't change an entire audience. Present your knowledge and products in a positve manner and realize there are others who have valid views, knowledge and experiences. You also learned from others and can continue to do so. The World of John is a small place, The World with John is a grand place.

Watching the news this morning reminds one that our world is an ever changing environment. More shootings in Seattle over night. People have forgotten how and why to be considerate, to discuss, to suppress anger and as Rodney said..can't we all just get along? It is as easy for most people to controll over the top behavior as it is to foster it. It is largely a chosen behavior. Choose wisely.

Have a great 4th everyone, let the fireworks be somewhere other than here.

As a doctor, I'm going to give JVL a prescription for butchered bacon (none of that store-bought sissy shit) and he should be better. If that doesn't help, then I'm a worse doctor than Steve Brule. Bacon.

---

Something about something....dirt.

Quote
heymagic
First to consider...this (and all) forums are owned by somone. Even if a group is in charge it is still under ownership and the majority of the particiapants are guests. We have a reasonable expectation of good behavior form others but no right to it. I don't know that it is fair to Skye to pressure him to chastise JV on this forum.

I really dislike the attacks when JV gets wound up and he doesn't do that in person so he can stop it. It is a conscious decision on his part.

I really dislike his contrived sense of humor, mis-spoken, mis-spelled giberish. Kind of a blend of Sam Kinison, The Swedish Chef and Randy "Macho Man' Savage.

I really, really dislike when the crap starts and so much potential good info gets lost in a stupis thread or someone quietly goes away we haven't even met yet.

I like JV personally, admire his abilities to analyse mechanical things and fabricate most anything. He is a MuttGiver for sure and that is pretty rare in these "I can't tie velcro shoes days". We settled any perceived differences long ago and I totally appreciate him, yet I'm willing to argue with him when needed.

Obviously banning him never accomplished more than losing his particiapation in that forum.

So....John, budy, pal, fellow motorsport enthusiast and old fart. Knock the shit off! You forget that every time you do the horses ass deal potential customers walk away. You're not as funny as you think, your clever mis-wording gets old (and not clever) and you constantly say people don't understand what you meant or the context..well BS. Language=communication. Not our job to try and see thru the smoke screen, it is your job to present your thoughts in a more concise manner..which you are more than bright enough to do. If you're being mis-understood then you need to change how you present what you say. You can't change an entire audience. Present your knowledge and products in a positve manner and realize there are others who have valid views, knowledge and experiences. You also learned from others and can continue to do so. The World of John is a small place, The World with John is a grand place.

Watching the news this morning reminds one that our world is an ever changing environment. More shootings in Seattle over night. People have forgotten how and why to be considerate, to discuss, to suppress anger and as Rodney said..can't we all just get along? It is as easy for most people to controll over the top behavior as it is to foster it. It is largely a chosen behavior. Choose wisely.

Have a great 4th everyone, let the fireworks be somewhere other than here.

QFT. Good post, Gene.

Although I think I am one of the rare birds who "gets" most of the JV humor.

---

Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

Quote
Anders Green
There does?

Hence 'Seems.'
The other thread had a strong level of support for stopping the bullshit from those who participated and, afterall, that is how the 'free world' is run, by the will of the majority who choose to participate.

Looks like my mistake here was offering 'don't ta[k]e away my freedom...' as a choice in the days leading up to Independence Day.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

I agree 100% with Gene's comments.

I am surprised by the silence from JVL. I would like to hear what he thinks (I can't beleve I just said that!).

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.