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modernbeat
I disagree with removing the "real name" rule. It's the one thing that forces people to own what they say. You want to be an ass on RA, then go ahead, but know that everyone will know who that ass is.

Agreemsg.

---

Self-righteous douche canoe

Quote
modernbeat
I disagree with removing the "real name" rule. It's the one thing that forces people to own what they say. You want to be an ass on RA, then go ahead, but know that everyone will know who that ass is.

except there's no real way to enforce that either without showing i.d. for proof upon sign up, and even that can be faked

Im an asshole.

I hate everyone.

Wait, or is it Im an everyone and I hate assholes?

Who knows.

I agree with lets let Anarchy be. Im on Pirate. This is mild.

I also agree with my scroll bar/mouse to breeze past. Once In a while Ill read just to see what the fuss is about. Get a chuckle with the "my e-penis is bigger! no mine e-penis is bigger!" It seems most on here just brush it off and go on about their way. Im by no means afraid to post questions on here. Its just I dont know what I need to ask yet.

Im a mod on a 4x4 forum. Ive been part of the rule making and surrounding drama it can create. Honestly, its refreshing to see people act they way they would in person on a forum (i refer to people not being too keen on someone and ignoring them). People do it in person everyday. Its not hard to do it on a keyboard as well.

I also agree most of the posts in "The Thread" should have been kept out. Or if one really feels the need to get anothers attention, a thread all its own. Then others could exercise their scroll abilities.

I dont know JL from almost anyone else here. I do know JVL from back in the day (ie. when i was a snot nose kid). Both of you seem like you have great advice to give and I could probably learn quite a bit from both of you (rally wise, i know my 12oz curls well thank you). I didnt think Id ever meet someone that curses as much as i do (JVL). JL seems well articulated, as does JVL when he feels the need. I get some of JVLs humor, the rest i just chalk up to "Crazy John". And Im in no way asking JL and JVL to kiss and make up. Im not defending one or the other. JVl needs to exercise interwebs self restraint (just an outsider perception) and I felt the wife/kids comment was a childish reaction.

We all know there is a time and a place for everything. We were all born with filters, some need cleaning more then others (not pointed toward anyone in particular).

Just my opinion. If you can make any sense from it.

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12xalt

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modernbeat
I disagree with removing the "real name" rule. It's the one thing that forces people to own what they say. You want to be an ass on RA, then go ahead, but know that everyone will know who that ass is.

except there's no real way to enforce that either without showing i.d. for proof upon sign up, and even that can be faked

When the idea of this place was discussed, the original founders---about 8 of us, all with much more e-experience than me since all but one was in their late 20s---we counted on a simple thing: trust.

We all had seen the things people do when they believe they have anonymity, or like some recent egregious behavior, they believe that people don't know the truth about who they really are.
But the one thing we tacitly all agreed on is that most people have a good dose of goodness in them and that we can trust most people until there is a clear reason not to trust them..

So sure there's no way of really knowing, but as we have seen over the course of all the time this has been running, most people are smart enough to see the advantages of the Real name, real Location thing,
except one glaring example of somebody who is clearing "acting out" since that is evidently the only means to validate his existence on earth.

In short we weren't looking for a forum designed to attract the normal 20 something punks who were living at home with mommy and who are looking to find fault and find offense.
And it is unfortunate that there are some here so disconnected with building and rallying cars, so insecure in their personhood that they regard all questions in any form as a "challenge" or an "attack" , so cognizant of their imagined worthlessness, that they have to act like the whiner punks that they so obviously are..
And so unable to understand how to defend a position they hold, how dialog works...
Some people are totally superficial in the encounters with the whole world they seem incapable of conceiving of the idea to plumb intentions...

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
...And it is unfortunate that there are some here blah blah blah...

Cool.
Scrolling over the name-calling bullshit is fairly easy and painless. :-)

(for those who can't recognise it - that was a joke)

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Once again the 'problem' is everyone but John. Why didn't I see that before?
Doh!! Stupid me, I'm obviously not worthy..

Of course there is one other large isue and that sems to be John is the sole arbiter of who is worthy.

If JV doesn't like them they have no value in the rally world.
If JV doesn't like their input, experience, options, way of doing things, they have no value.

Ya know there is a thread right now on SS with a competitor complaining or discussing his entry being refused because he went ape shit on the forum last year towards the organizer. So I guess there are instances of the karma thing working.

Well I'm not comfortable with the constant poor behavior here being exhibited by one person against several others. A disagreement is fine and I can most certainly take being groused at without holding a grudge but I really have personal issues with partcipating and allowing some of this name calling, accusations and one opinion suffices for all philosiphy. So count me out unless some changes and apologies are made.

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heymagic
Once again the 'problem' is everyone but John. Why didn't I see that before?
Doh!! Stupid me, I'm obviously not worthy..

Why do you do that Gene?
I didn't say "everybody here", you just did and it is dishonest of you to do that and allude that I did. And you know that.

Quote

Of course there is one other large isue and that sems to be John is the sole arbiter of who is worthy.

If JV doesn't like them they have no value in the rally world.
If JV doesn't like their input, experience, options, way of doing things, they have no value.

Your time of month?
Maybe time for:

Quote

Well I'm not comfortable with the constant poor behavior here being exhibited by one person against several others. A disagreement is fine and I can most certainly take being groused at without holding a grudge but I really have personal issues with partcipating and allowing some of this name calling, accusations and one opinion suffices for all philosiphy. So count me out unless some changes and apologies are made.

Gene, what one person finds offensive is always a point of view.
Max said he never knew anybody who swears as much as i do. He didn't say it offensive, but my thought was "Gee, guess he's never spoken with car or bike guys from well ANYWHERE I've ever been or talked to..like English, IRISH, French, Germans RUSSIAN!!! OMG! Italians, everybody....
I am a veritable saint by those standards.

Offense, particularly taking offense at a "style of writing", is not harm.

Bad advice often leads to harm.

You made some noise about one guy whose schtick is the Mr Calm, "gentleman" facade.
Where is your outrage for his mentioning my wife and children for the 30th time?

One time referring to my wife and children because his ignorance was 'elucidated" in some Off Topic raving about how evil, and how muslim Nazi Obama is and he's making comments about my wife and kids.
Gene: GENTLEMEN DO NOT BRING INTO STUPID ARGUMENTS Wife and kids.
No second chances there. ALL respect GONE.

I don't care if you have had some nice weekend associations with him.
THAT IS NOT DONE..

Where's your outrage for a simple cash deal, one of dozens of 15+ year that he begins complaining about several years after the fact, and drags out for 7 years accusing me of things?

Apologies will not erase the words pasted all over the Internet taunting and alluding things about my wife and kids, my house, my finances.

Keep your shirt on. You do not know the extent of what is going on.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2012 03:51PM by john vanlandingham.

The rules should not be changed. This site is special. To many of you, I might just be another mouthy, know-it-all keyboard rallyist, but I've been in the automotive forum business since 1998. I've seen this sort of thing time and again. You can't legislate your way to a kinder, gentler community.

When I point people here (and I do, several times a year), I tell them to expect to use their real names, to have their ideas challenged, to keep an open mind, and to make sure they wear their big boy pants when they walk through the door. This is not a place for personal branding and bullshit. This is a place where shit gets done. (Which is why I've not been particularly active of late. I don't do much on the rally front anymore.)

On any other forum, where users can hide behind the psuedo-anonymity and feign expertise through clever copy>paste skills, communities are struggling. It's every man for himself and heaven forbid you suggest there is grey area or any possible alternative. That which has been previously discussed is no longer open to debate. Those with the longest tenure or post count or fanciest cars are above rebuke. Nobody helps anyone else. Every new tech article or idea is a closely guarded secret, as if some sort of twisted, competitive advantage. And for what - to keep others who don't actually race either in the dark?

If there are those among us who would resort to personal attacks, barring truly making everyone moderators with power to temporarily ban each other, perhaps there is a karma plug-in available for this forum which would allow any user to give any other user feedback once every 24 hours. When a user's "karma" score drops below a specified level, he loses the ability to post until such time as his score improves. (Creation of an additional account to get around this would be grounds for permaban.)

Rules set performance limitations and encourage people to find work-arounds. Rules lead to lawyers.
TRUST is what enables us to take risks, discover new ideas, and enjoy mutually beneficial progress.

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

Quote
DR1665
Rules lead to lawyers.
TRUST is what enables us to take risks, discover new ideas, and enjoy mutually beneficial progress.

Do you remeber when you first were yakking about that fwd shitbox thing you were all set to build up?
Remember I ---what to somebody reading superficially or looking to argue---
argued vigorously what a pile of shit and how boring and "no-fun" it would be? And how in the background of some piccie of that thing there was a not so nice Gaylant and I jumped on you and said something to the effect "DoooooooooD why do ya wanna fawk with some poncy fwd junk for which there is no alternate gearsets, final drives or diffs available----when you have a car we all know is an excellent car sitting there in that Misterbitchi Gaylant?"

You didn't get all butt-hurt.
You trusted the intent behind me advocating vigorously that you do something different than what you had hatched for an idea yourself..

You somehow understood the intent was to spare you wasting your limited funds on a dead end project---then suffering a loss when you dump it cause its a slow POS.

Life has its turns and surprises (like I just got word less than 45 minutes ago that I do not have a cancerous tumor, whew!) and you poked at the Gaylant, and life carried you elsewhere, and that's another story.
But that may never have happened that way if everybody just said "Oh cool and 97 Misterbitchi Ragin Flatuence GXSR, that's unique, kewl."

Odd thing trust. And respect..
Too bad some are always thinking there's ulterior motives behind everything and look for offense.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

John, you are at best delusional. The original thread was started not by Mr.Lane. He just basically chimed in you were an internet bully.

I never said you said anything about everyone...maybe YOU should learn to read.

I simple said the obvious problem is with everyone other than you. I said it, I own it, nothing referring to anything you said. Pay attention.

I care not, nor did I question your bad dealings with Mr.Lane. I did say I've had at least 3 times where he could have been pretty upset with me and he handled those instances with great dignity, somehting you don't have nor understand.

I don't have any care or concerns for your wife and kids. I suspect you don't either or you'd worry more about what people think and say of your business dealings. But that is just my opinion and not anything other than.

However I'll make it real easy for you, as far as I'm concerned, I won't answer you, I won't antagonize you, I won't acknowledge you. You can be as mean to Timm and Morison as it pleases you. Done deal.

Everyone else, people have much different tolerance levels and behavior patterns. Just because there are worse forums doesn't mean this forum is the gold standard. If a person isn't comfortable they go away. If I were in a bar inhabited by guys in assless chaps and bull whips, I'm leaving. If I'm in a living room of someones house and they smoke 2 packs a day, I'm leaving. If I'm in a forum with constant disruption from one person with no sanctions, I'm leaving. No big deal, no problem, honestly. Life is too short to put up with poor behavior and constant attacks, irregardless of who is doing it.

Rally is not made up of JVL fans in old Volvos. It is made up of organizers, volunteers, service people, families, friends, competitors, sponsors, vendors and a host of others. Think about who isn't on this forum for a minute or two.

So feel free to send me a PM on tech issues or start a thread...as soon as JVL interrupts I'm done with the thread tho.

As you were...

Well, the truly sad part is, I don't think Keith really cares what he says about him, and I obviously don't give a damn....

But I believe Keith joins me in caring about how others see this forum. Something which John clearly doesn't. I used to steer people towards here. I don't anymore. (same with JVAB, actually...)


So, while I couldn't care less about what John types, I do care that he is typing and running this forum into a wall. But, that's just my $.02.

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Quote
Dazed_Driver
Well, the truly sad part is, I don't think Keith really cares what he says about him...

Not quite right.
I don't care what JVL thinks about me. But, I seriously don't like it when he starts lying and shitting all over me. He's repeatedly libeled me, but the saving grace is no-one takes him seriously.

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Dazed_Driver
But I believe Keith joins me in caring about how others see this forum.

Bingo.

I know for a fact that JVL's behaviour has stopped several people from either participating at all or participating to a larger degree. It is easy to say we don't want people who can't 'put on their big boy pants,' but that's missing the point completely.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Ah, well, I don't really mind that. The more libel and slander he brings the more it just ruins his own reputation. I'm ok with that. He can run himself into the ground if he wants to, that's his boat to sail.

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

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john vanlandingham
But I don't know what will ever stop this crap from being splashed all over.

John.... This thread is not about you and I.... It is about the subject at the top....

Another wall of text + bullshit that does not even touch the topic in a thread.

John you are chasing people away..... YOU.... the guy who speaks of the importance of speaking up are the very guy who was so quick to point out that I must 'Go away.'

John want to chat about things? Call me. I've tried to reach you for seven years now. My number is the same.... It is on your Caller ID. I spoke with your daughter yesterday. Delightful young lady. "Dad is not here.... Will be back later.... Don't know what time."

I'm glad for you that you've not got the Big C.

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

Quote
JohnLane


John want to chat about things? Call me. I've tried to reach you for seven years now. My number is the same.... It is on your Caller ID. I spoke with your daughter yesterday. Delightful young lady. "Dad is not here.... Will be back later.... Don't know what time."

I have written you and said on the phone repeatedly:
There is only one thing that needs to be resolved:
Bring it down and drop it off, come get it a couple of hours later.
There is a hoist right where it has been for years.

That will solve your big grievance. Or at least your excuse for repeatedly bringing this up out of context again and again.

Gentlemen do not change their minds years after a deal is done and defame others 2-3 dozen times.
Take it off line.

And note: gentlemen do not bring into a dispute a persons wife and children as you again have done time and again....I don't write anything about your "lifestyle' or economic conditions or relationships with others because I don't know anything and it's just not done by a man, much less by one attempting to present themselves as a "Gentleman".
You have done it repeatedly out of context and its on the internet forever.

I choose not to associate with people who do such things..

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.