My first attempt at video production

That was really enjoyable, kinda reminded me of some older movie car chases.

Jorden, I'd be curious as to what you think of the wireless mic. I've seen a couple but as of right now have no camera's to hook one up to.

The one I've got is a Sony UWP-C1 setup, basically a few-years-old UHF lavalier microphone kit that was commonly used to do interviews. basically two little boxes that run on AA batteries. one is the transmitter, and has the little clip-on microphone, the other end is the reciever, that has an output to whatever device is needed. I got both a standard 3mm connector cable, and a 3mm to XLR, in case the camera has XLR inputs.

The included microphone is all I've used so far, and it's ok, but I think a better one would help the sound quality a little bit. But I've been too lazy to research better ones.

I haven't got a small camera with external mic inputs yet (although I'm really digging the ReplayXD, it's got potential), and haven't wanted to poke any holes in my existing one, so I just record to an mp3 voice recorder, a Roland/Edirol something-or-other. I used to use a couple mini-DV tape cameras, but with all the shaking and rattling that cars get, they don't work perfectly anymore, lol!

The camera I've been using is a Tachyon MicroHD, only does 720P, but it's waterproof up to 100 feet, which will be nifty for a couple things I want to do. being tucked inside the waterproof housing, the microphone isn't the best. But I like the Tachyon because it's cheap ($130-ish) and doesn't have a huge warped field of view like you get when turning a GoPro up to higher FPS settings, and runs on two AAA batteries that last about two hours.

This video was also recorded using the wireless setup a couple weeks ago on a buddy's Corvette, the microphone was clipped to the wire running to the rearview mirror. The hardest part about using a separate audio recorder is syncing the sound from the recorder to the video track. Usually I smack the car three times and align from there, but I forgot on this one, and ended up not getting it quite right, until I found a spot where he ran over the rumble strips and I was able to sync the camera and external sound tracks:




This video from the same day only used the in-camera microphone, and I had to do a bunch of audio tweaking in an old version of Sony Vegas (v6, i think) to cut the wind noise and stuff, and it's still not as good as I'd like it to be:




--Jorden

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---** To be in compliance with the Anarchy **---
Jorden R. Kleier
Baraboo, Wisconsin, USA
1990 Mazdog Protege 4WD
1973

Quote
Sean Burke
This is my first attempt at youtube video production - STPR 2012, let me know what you think.

1) if you're looking for some 'atta-boy's : Good Job Buddy!

2) if you're looking for constructive comments: Read below.

I guess the first question is what you wanted the video to do.

From my perspective it doesn't seem to have a 'goal' or a purpose. Even if it is 'just for the hell of it,' you should still try and do 'someting' with it.

What stood out to me were the number of cuts that were completely unrelated. Going from incar between tight trees to stage-side footage in an open area and back to incar between tight trees. Or incar of a hairpin left going immediatley to stage-side of a hairpin right. Cutting from the same in-car perspective from one part of a stage to another, similar (or same) stage as a straight cut is confusing and disjointed.

I guess, in short, when you're editing together something, even with unrelated segments, try and keep the action or motion flowing from frame to frame.

As with any 'rules' this isn't absolute, but is generally a good thing to do.

In this video

(9 years old, done on Windows Movie Maker, and shot with one camera) you'll see that most of the shots flow into each other. This goes as far as looking for gear changes and engine sounds to be similar from shot to shot. (Accellerating cuts to accellerating, braking cuts to braking and so-on) The toughest edit for me was the one at 1:12. Two different passes of the road, shot with one camera and making it appear seamless, in my first video editing in the field.

Other things I noticed with your video were length, the abrupt end, and title placement.

Since you weren't doing a single, continous, stage distance you weren't tied to a certain length of video. I expect you built the video to the length of the song, which means you padded it with footage to hit a certain length. For sake of smoothness, you'll want to find a good place in the music (if you really want music) to fade it out cleanly, but the length of the video needs to be dictated by the footage and the purpose of the video. For a collection of shots from an event - 4 minutes is, generally speaking, an eternity. (see below)

The end of your video stops dead. a fade to black and cursory credits is a much gentler way to finish a video and leaves it with a 'completed' feeling. It also gives a chance for you to thank sponsors, organisers, volunteers, etc. and build some connection to the 'community.'

The title placement is a bit tricky, withot knowing for sure what youtube will do with it, but the advertising that came up blocked part of your title at the beginning. This is something you should think about and, possibly, keep your titles on the top, or middle, of the video.

Finally, as others have said - and at the risk of stating the obvious - Audio quality is massively MASSIVELY important. The Drift HD cameras do an amazing job of capturing audio from Peltor amps but the 'background' noise is really reduced. If you're filming with two cameras you can always grab ambient with one and intercom with the other ... then you just have to mix and sync the audio, which can be time consuming. (although there are some software plugins that will do that for you on some editing platforms)

Here are a couple more examples.




Again, nearly 9 years old, done on WMM, reasonable flow from shot to shot, used disolves to make the changes clear and 'comfy.' I tied myslef to the song length, which lead to some long segments being used and some action that wasn't action. If you knew the people involved you'd recognise that some of the clips were placed to match the lyrics - while cute, it is lost on the vast majority of people who will watch it.
At 4:45 it's longer than it should be. I think what 'saves' it is that I have footage of several other teams and a variety of events, giving more than just 'me on the stage' footage.

and



at 3:41 is probably a full minute, at least, longer than it should be. I got trapped into my own desire to 'finish the stage' in the multi-perspective shot. That said, the hard core guys can watch steering, outside and foot cam combos all day long, particularly when trying to get a handle on LFB.
This was more of a 'proof of concept video' that was done to pitch something bigger, that hasn't come together yet. (This is why it was a ride on a test stage and not with a co-driver and without 'notes' being called) It isn't as 'tight' of an edit as I'd normally do for a final product.
Interestingly, the audio for this is mostly from a go-pro, in a case, that was doing the foot camera footage. I've never before, or since, heard such good audio out of a go-pro.

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
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Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Keeeeerice-t didya see the pedal box flexing?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Keeeeerice-t didya see the pedal box flexing?

Not that it has anything to do with the topic at hand...

Perspective and the closeness of the camera to the pedals will exaggerate what you see - but does anyone think that is an inordinate amount of flex?

At about 0:38 you see movement in the clutch pedal on a botom hinged M-Sport pedal box (botom hinged would have less 'throw' to amplify any flex I'd think)


?t=32s

And loads of flex here, in a polish built Euro Rallycross Skoda Fabia.




BOTH videos above are shot from angles that would be much more sympathetic and would naturally make flex not as obvious.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2012 04:45PM by Morison.

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Morison

Quote
john vanlandingham
Keeeeerice-t didya see the pedal box flexing?

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Not that it has anything to do with the topic at hand...

Nothing at all in the narrow view, but the meta-message of this forum is club guys driving and club guys trying to build "pretty damn good" cars.
In case you forgot.

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Perspective and the closeness of the camera to the pedals will exaggerate what you see - but does anyone think that is an inordinate amount of flex?

I'm perfectly aware of perspective.
And yeah somebody thinks its a horrifyingly inordinate amount of somebody wouldn't have mentioned it to the somebody's else' who don't know.

You don't think it is?
You're wrong. It is.
It is a graphic representation of a problem that many people have been advised of over the years, in fact not even 10 minutes ago somebody was advised out in Ontario by somebody to look at the cheese-oid construction of the rally Xratty pedal box they were wrenching on.

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At about 0:38 you see movement in the clutch pedal on a botom hinged M-Sport pedal box (botom hinged would have less 'throw' to amplify any flex I'd think)


?t=32s

And loads of flex here, in a polish built Euro Rallycross Skoda Fabia.




BOTH videos above are shot from angles that would be much more sympathetic and would naturally make flex not as obvious.

Not that it has anything to do with the topic at hand..

Their flex doesn't balance the world-flexy-pedal-box-deficiet, does it?

Gawd, why do I bother.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Nothing at all in the narrow view, but the meta-message of this forum is club guys driving and club guys trying to build "pretty damn good" cars.
In case you forgot.

Hadn't forgotten.
If that's the case, start a new thread on the importance and value of rock-solid pedal boxes so the discussion isn't burried in some topic about someone else's video.

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I'm perfectly aware of perspective.

Then you know any movement of the pedal box is grossly exaggerated from that perspoective and camera position.

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And yeah somebody thinks its a horrifyingly inordinate amount of somebody wouldn't have mentioned it to the somebody's else' who don't know.

But have you seen similar video of pedal boxes you've raced with or built for people to know they don't move that much in use?
Brakes have been one thing that this car, and driver, haven't have trouble with. While maybe 'flexy' they work and are reliable in what is widely recognised as a well driven and fast car. (on the scale of local competition - so, yes, almost certainly slow on the global scale of things)

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You don't think it is?

Honestly, I don't really know enough to say. BUT, like I say, it works and works well, so I can't help but think it isn't 'dangerously' excessive.

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Their flex doesn't balance the world-flexy-pedal-box-deficiet, does it?

No, but in part I went an looked for similar videos of very high spec cars to see if the top level builders are univerally obsessed with pedalbox flexiness. Seeing some movemeny in the M-Sport WRC car makes me think that some flex isn't seen as being a critical concern. (It isn't like M-Sport is going to cut corners)

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Gawd, why do I bother.

Why don't you just try to have civil discusions?
Rather than what you've done here - Assuming my position and being argumentative about it - why not put the slightest effort into simply having a proper discussion about things?

At the end of the day, I'm also reasonably certain the driver is looking to do something with the pedal box, but it is a matter of where it lies in the budget for a real low budget, grassroots team.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2012 06:37PM by Morison.

Quote
Morison

Why don't you just try to have civil discusions?

I thought I could make a comment about something seen in the video that was interesting to me.

You rudely made a dismissive comment, and here brusquely ordered me to start a thread somewhere else. And, pontificated that there was nothing to see.
Evidently the difference between play and flex is unimportant, so never mind.

Incivility, Morison , depends on point of view.

But naturally, nothing you ever do could possibly be commented on,
naturally..

So never mind, you can get back to your 1000 word dissertation on why the OPs video was so inferior to yours.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2012 06:57PM by john vanlandingham.

The flex in Block's car is pretty minimal.
I was surprised at how much the firewall can flex in my car. Is it a big deal? Probably not that much but not difficult to remedy. I've heard of sheet metal developing a tear over time from it but that's probably just due to some fat dude pushing too hard.

I always thought hard about every time I had an edit.
1) Is a cross fade or butt cut better? Any fancy options are unnecessary and best left for mom's making videos of their dogs or kid's graduations.
2) What is on the screen? Try to make the shots be different enough but also have some linearity. Most of the Max Attack footage was displayed in order of stages, but occasionally we would be on stage in Mark, Scott, Grant but the video would display in Grant, Mark, Scott order almost always due to how the shots felt together. Color, start and end of clip, and style of corner were important factors I considered.
3) What's going on with audio? It's harder with in-car footage, but I always tried to transition with the lowest audio level and if not possible, add an audio transition so that it suddenly doesn't go quite or suddenly blast your ears off.

For editing self/team video:
Three styles to consider.
1) Fast montage of highlight clips. Try to keep total length to under 2 minutes tops. Consider above things, especially audio. Something fast and rocking like Turbonegro as a soundtrack. Listen to the song and compose the video or time the edits to the music. Much harder to do than it sounds. This is the hardest type of video to get right. The slower the music and more beaty the better. Hence the current common use of slow mo and Dubshit. This can be all in car but works best with a few out of car shots to create changing perspectives.

2) Full in-car. Little to no music. Single track of in-car audio that NEVER changes. If you have intercom recorded include the codriver calling notes. When the shot changes/different camera you can mix the new cameras audio in and lower the level of camera 1 (practice and see how it sounds) if you want to distinguish, but as a general rule, the audio should never change. If you have multiple cameras you can cut to different shots, but keep the audio mostly constant. Stage start should be within 10 seconds of start of video. No scrolling graphics. Any graphic should be short and simple with a max of the following: Driver/codriver, rally & year, stage name, stage time.
Keep in mind, most general viewers will not watch more than 2 minutes so pick a stage that is super interesting to post initially. Wait a few days then post remaining stages if you want for people to view pre-event or if they really are stoked on you and want to watch all of the videos. (ie. bro in Afghanistan.)

3) Review video: For this you need a mix of in-car, pre, during, and post rally interviews with crew, and a sense of what you are trying to achieve. Best way is to go watch everything Warwick has ever done and emulate that.

Shit, gotta go bowling. I'll post more thoughts later.

---

Grant Hughes

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john vanlandingham
So never mind, you can get back to your 1000 word dissertation on why the OPs video was so inferior to yours.

Not even remotely the point of my post. I thought I'd share knowledge and information. He asked what people thought so I figured I would give him some knowledgible advice, in case he wanted it. I was simply using my videos as examples of what I was trying to say INCLUDING where I have made the same mistakes/decisions.

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You rudely made a dismissive comment, and here brusquely ordered me to start a thread somewhere else. And, pontificated that there was nothing to see.
Evidently the difference between play and flex is unimportant, so never mind.

Dude, if you think anything I said in this thread was either rude or dismissive you need to seriously evaluate how you see the world. Not only was it not meant to be rude or dismissive, I doubt any reasonable person would see it that way - particularly in the context of this forum and what seems to be considered as perfectly acceptable behaviour.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Apreciate all of the advice guys. Morrison, Grant, pretty insightful stuff, thanks.

This is my second try at video production.

Holy awesome roads! Looks tough on the car but really fun!

Wow. Driving was fast! I HAD to check the BRS results. Without the one bad stage, it looks like you would have had 2nd. Most likely woulda won, eh? Good job on the vid. Only thing I wish, was the external jump shot was longer. How long could that lil Honda hold up to all them jumps? HOLY WAH!

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Owner, Driver, Head Mechanic, and Janitor at Tower City Race Team, headquartered near L'Anse. Michigan.
Driver / CoDriver in Rally America, NASARallySport, ARA, AMS, UPMDA, Champ Off Road

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Quote
Dante
Only thing I wish, was the external jump shot was longer. !