Transporting Fuel Across Canadian Border

As usual were use same language, but different meaning to words.

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Now, everything else aside, if you had the chance to buy a used rally car that you knew the complete history of, knew and trusted the people who built and maintained it, and considered the sell er a friend or you could buy a car where you didn't know the history, didn't know the bilder and didn't know the owner - which would you do? If both cars would 'do the job' how much would the make of car shift your decision.

jeeezuz.
I wouldn't buy a car that is a crap design, weak, inherent faults, crap weight distribution, basically a bad car regardless, especially when there were better cars to own and pound on.

Since you don't know the details of what and why the one is good and the other weak shit, you talk of all the peripheral crap.
Both obviously "can do the job", the question is at what long term cost.

UNLESS our boy has a multi-million dollar trust fund/ bank account like many of the boys who who have popularised the Blue Subaru craze, that becomes the central question.

How much will it cost to really run the thing hard. And how much do you like risking failure of major parts.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Back on topic. Adam, let us know what you find out. Its a great question and would like to know what the score is.


And dont take me super serious Adam, just pulling your chain

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Intercom and electronics dude. www.zerodegreec.ca

Hey Bryan, am I super serious about anything?

Well yes, going FAST

Stipulations for this thought/fact gathering exercise:

You have BOUGHT FUEL in the USA, which under USA Federal Regulations states fuel is exempt from dangerous goods transportation rules (at least for personal use). This I believe to be true (please correct me if I am wrong).

The CBSA has told me they have NO problem with me purchasing and transporting as much fuel as I want across the border. HOWEVER, they are not Transport Canada.

Government of Alberta Transportation wrote up a nice PDF in May 2012, presumably to help all of the individuals in the oilfield industry understand the rules and regs behind transporting fuel:

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType272/Production/sliptanks.pdf

Here is the excerpt of info that is most relevant to myself:



Therefore, feel free to bring up to 2000L of fuel (as long as properly marked with the following labels) across the border into Canada. Make sure to do it at Sweetgrass, and don't look sketchy. Your duty free exemption applies, plus GST. Make sure to bring some buddies with receipts showing the purchases in their name so you don't get charged duty.



And that's that, man that was easy. Currently I can only get away with 5 barrels (2000 pounds) of fuel and my truck will be at max gvcw with the trailer loaded up. I might try and snag my dad's pickup for this trip, which would give me an additional 1600 pounds of towing capacity (or another 4 barrels worth of fuel).

Based on my calculations, I expect to use 4 barrels over 6 events, maybe slightly more. I have 4 events left this season (Olympus, PFR, Kananakis, Big White) and then 6 events minimum next season (all of the nationals). Olympus will have a barrel used and the tank of the car filled up for the trip home. So 9 events total in Canada means 6 barrels. So it's doable...

I still have another big long post sitting saved on my desktop at home to reply to all of the anarchy flying around in this thread, but I'm still in Ft Mac, so that'll have to wait until this evening. I think John and Keith need to get a room or somethin' though

Edit-
This will save me over $2k in costs over the course of a season, or practically pay for my entire Olympus trip depending on how you look at it. $435/205L barrel is pretty damn good (slightly more than $2/) considering premium is up to $1.30/L here in Edmonton. PLUS, just think of how much premium will cost out east (I bet we see $1.60/L for 91 octane out east by next year).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2012 12:35PM by HiTempguy.

So now the question remains, will they sell you six extra barrels at Olympus...

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Grant Hughes

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NoCoast
So now the question remains, will they sell you six extra barrels at Olympus...

Which is my next phone call to make. Plenty of us from Canuckistan have bought up to 4 barrels at once at Olympus in prior years, so I don't see why not. Especially split between two individuals (Jeff and myself) it isn't an unreasonable amount of fuel.

Also, AFAIK, that $435/barrel is THE price of VP, they just happen to bring it to you at Rally America events rather than you having to go get it from a distributor. Nothing stopping me from lining up another purchase in Washington/Idaho on my way back

NICE!!!

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Grant Hughes

I've got it! I know how we can save rally and attract millions. We get Keith and John in the same car. Have a crew follow them around and put the in car footage on a TV show aired on MTV with DC as a title sponsor!

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Intercom and electronics dude. www.zerodegreec.ca

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zerodegreec
I've got it! I know how we can save rally and attract millions. We get Keith and John in the same car. Have a crew follow them around and put the in car footage on a TV show aired on MTV with DC as a title sponsor!

Can I co-produce the show with you? :p

In other news, I was shown the error of some of my mis-information and had to make further phone calls:

I spoke with Malcolm at Transportation of Dangerous Goods, and across Canada, there is no issue with you moving an UNLIMITED amount of fuel for personal use (at least with UN 1268) if you have TDG training (a $35 online course). You must have the appropriate shipping placards as I already stated, instead of saying gasoline, they must have 1268 written on them. These must be on the vehicle, the trailer, and clearly visible on the fuel containers.

Now that I'm back in town and more able to stir shit up...

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NoCoast
You might be surprised how hard that actually is to do.

Well I'd certainly hope so, if I just "beat him" without any fan-fare, what is the point? Haven't you guys ever heard of a challenge? There is the distinct possibility that if I don't get a test day in before the event, it won't happen. I was fairly well acquainted with the Talhoon before it saw stage (rally-x'd a talon previously, put over 2000kms of daily driving on this one, did a test day, etc).

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Brian Johnson
I like your attitude..! And I've got $20 on Chris. :-)

We should get a betting system going on, gambling on sports is legal in Canada...

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Doug Heredos

Hope to see you at Olympus!

Doug

Thanks for the info Doug. Good to see no problems with one barrel. I hope to see everyone at Olympus too! I am in the process of buying an open deck trailer, so rather than buying a newer diesel to tow the 20' gooseneck construction trailer with, I can use my 93 1/2 ton. Sounds like I'll have free fuel to the border and then back, so everything is coming together to get down there... I have another week and a bit to get my early entry in!

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zerodegreec
I dont know if your Chris analogy was a dig on Wim and I at RMR against ACP in Wim's old Nissan. But I will take the bait...

Not at all Bryan, but you should know me better than that! I'd be pretty dismayed to get beaten by any 2wd car.

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zerodegreec
You may learn when you get older Adam that some times going for the big WIN of every stage, or event is not the goal of the rally. Some drivers rally just for the fun of pushing themselfs to go faster and enjoy the car. For example the goal for us at RMR at the top of the list was.....Bring the car home in the same condition it started. Was it frustrating that our Friday stages were absolutly atrocious? You bet! But we were not about to push faster than Wim felt comfortable.

Oh, you just had to go there didn't ya? :p Age is nothing but a number, most people who think they are wise are just more prone to folly. I'd point out I've been doing this racing and rally thing for quite a while now (8 years). I think I have the experience necessary (and level head on my shoulders) to know MY limitations and MY goals better than anyone, and have MANAGED to keep some hot-headed drivers on the road. I can certainly say, the way I am doing it seems to be working out for me so far I know you're pulling my chain Bryan, with a dose of seriousness. It's my favourite type of discussion

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zerodegreec
Adam you seem to have a "Win it or Bin it" attitude. That might not line up with your "in it for the long haul" statement. Unless you have a nice trust fund like a certain driver learning the ropes from Pat.

The funniest thing is, at no time am I scary or dangerous on stage. I explained the crash to everyone ad nauseum, I wasn't even going fast, I screwed up royally!

As for the trust fund, I can only dream . Here I sit in my 12'x12' box with all of my modest posessions, daily driving a free firefly that's check engine light is permanently on. I've set up my life to sustainably rally until I decide to call it quits. Few can say that.

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john vanlandingham
You know if you weren't so intent in telling everybody everything all the time, you might actually eventually learn something.

John, Keith is right on all accounts for someone in MY position. I had ~$6k total into the Talon. It required work beyond my skills (rather be racing), so the cost to fix would have been quite high, and the guy that would have done the work said so. I would have been up to $10k plus just to get it back on the road in money spent on the car. Plus, you talk of building it up. I REALLY wanted to do that. Cheap 5 speed box with close ratios and diffs would have ran about $4k. So now I am at $14k into a car that I can't recover the money out of over $6k. And then actual engine tuning would have been another couple of $K once the ecu and tuning was paid for.

Or, I could buy a car that I'd known all of it's life (including a roadtrip where some guy put a 3" tall dent in the floor pan when he went to jack up the car so we could change the tire... not gonna name any names, but he may be in this thread *cough*Keith*cough* :p), had raced in, had watch been built properly by a well known shop (that does swaps...), and amazed by the final quality of the car after some teething problems.

I have one goal, don't you know? That's to be the fastest. And I have to do it on a "Bill Bacon would laugh at it" budget. So I take what I can get and make it work, including a dang Suba-rat. Your experience with Subaru's differ from mine though. I did almost THIRTY RACES in a PGT '02 WRX and never once did we DNF due to mechanical failure. We broke ONE tranny due to the owner not realizing the maintanence required (his first season ever racing ANYTHING, and to this day he is hard on trannies). We got stuck in a puddle when we hit the washout so hard the skidplate folded over. It never once gave us serious issues, and that has been my experience in EVERY Subaru. I can swap a 6 speed STi tranny by myself, but a Talon/Evo tranny? Hooooly fawk. It's not that I disagree that there are better choices, even Pat told me to buy a Evo out of the states ( ), but I rarely listen to Pat anyways

The car I bought is durable. It isn't the fastest, but I'll be able to pound away on it for a year or two and not have to worry while learning how to drive better. I can MAINTAIN a car just fine, but as soon as any fabricating comes in, out the door to someone else she goes. I have access to a pretty full on shop now (brand new 40' x 50' shop I just built with my father in fact) to do all my own work, even with my own lift *ecstatic*

ON A SIDE NOTE
If I do Olympus, it looks like I will have to run the regional... the national was already insanely expensive, but they want you to pay an additional "regional licencing fee" ($50), then if you want to enter the national you need to pay another "licence fee" ($50), and finally, you have to buy the dual entry (regional/national) which is another $200 on top of just entering the national itself. Essentially, they want you to buy a national licence. In that case, I'll save that $250 (still gotta pay the $50 temp regional licence fee), plus an additional $600 by entering the regional. That'll almost pay for two barrels of fuel itself right there...

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License holder who has entered the regional rallies run
concurrent with a national rally may also enter that national rally
(aka dual entry) and earn points upon payment of an additional
license fee of $50. This is limited to three national rallies in a
season.

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HiTempguy
ON A SIDE NOTE
If I do Olympus, it looks like I will have to run the regional... the national was already insanely expensive, but they want you to pay an additional "regional licencing fee" ($50), then if you want to enter the national you need to pay another "licence fee" ($50), and finally, you have to buy the dual entry (regional/national) which is another $200 on top of just entering the national itself. Essentially, they want you to buy a national licence. In that case, I'll save that $250 (still gotta pay the $50 temp regional licence fee), plus an additional $600 by entering the regional. That'll almost pay for two barrels of fuel itself right there...

Actually the Regional fee has been changed to $75 for CARS lic holders.

Adam, do you qualify to race an open car in a RA event??? As a driver you don't have the requirements yet. Hope I am mistaken.

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Intercom and electronics dude. www.zerodegreec.ca

Adam, somewhere up there you said some horseshit, wait

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I'd be pretty dismayed to get beaten by any 2wd car.

How do you plan to stay "un-dismayed"? What level of avoidance is acceptable? I mean unless you are faster than say guys into the top 25 in WRC, there's dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of guy in 2wd cars that could spank you so bad and I'm talking equivalent guys, local clubbie crazies, not "woiks" so called heroes (who are really paying 100s of thousands for the pretense of being "pro". There's whole countries full of them. How do you keep the dismay at bay?
Just pretend they don't exist?

Second..
Age and folly..I agree most people who think they are wise are just flat full of shit. And actual intelligence is pretty damn rare...because actual intelligence intelligence means actual curiosity, and that's rare.

But a wise man once said "If a fool persists in his folly for long enough, he shall become a wise man.".
Some people--regardless of age--when they have enough experience may not achieve wisdom, or enlightenment.

But they may have developed the habit of doing the right thing anyway, sheer muscle memory habit and trial and error till they got it right.
Good substitute for wisdom.

Wisdom or awareness, or enlightenment, its the icing on the cake, and if you have it, life is fuller, richer, more interesting (there is a pretty big world outside the confines of your own pointy head kid)(that applieds to everybody so keep your shirt on), thats great..

But it is the icing on the cake. Its a bonus, a nice one but a bonus..
But in many cases it doesn't matter if a person understands ALL the WHY of whatever they're doing, as long as they do the right thing.

Of course when inexperienced people don't listen, then its good to have a lot of money, it works for most people as a substitute for thinking.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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john vanlandingham
How do you plan to stay "un-dismayed"? What level of avoidance is acceptable?

Should I have clarified in North America? I know what you are saying John, and I am not saying I am "da bes". But seriously, the 2wd competition in North America does NOT have that high of a bar except for a very limited number of people. And when you have twice the forward traction and twice the power, and STILL get beat, for myself, that'd be embarrasing (embarrasing as to my skill level that even with such an advantage, you'd still lose).

Bryan brings up a good point that I hadn't even considered, I "ass"umed that wouldn't cross over as I'd be running on a CARS licence. Maybe an email is in order?

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HiTempguy
Bryan brings up a good point that I hadn't even considered, I "ass"umed that wouldn't cross over as I'd be running on a CARS licence. Maybe an email is in order?

I sent an e-mail, but (as I don't expect a reply until at least tomorrow), here is what it says in the rule book:

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D. REGIONAL LICENSES
1. For Canadian residents who hold valid CARS licenses respectively,
the fee for a Regional Rally License is $50. For all others (including
United States residents), the fee for a Regional Rally License is
$125.00 and may be used for driving or co-driving duties.
2. A Regional Rally License will allow a competitor to compete only in
regional events, except as noted below.
3. Additional information for Regional Rally License holders
a. License holder may enter any regional rally including those
concurrent with national rallies.
b. License holder who has entered the regional rallies run
concurrent with a national rally may also enter that national rally
(aka dual entry) and earn points upon payment of an additional
license fee of $50. This is limited to three national rallies in a
season.

Seems to me that I have a valid CARS licence, and I should be able to pay the $50 for a regional rally licence and compete in an open car, no restrictions, as I am not applying for a novice/provisional driver's licence.

Of course, maybe since I explained the situation to Rally America in my e-mail, they will be unhappy about this and deny my application for a regional licence... Bryan - 1, Adam - 0. Touche good sir, even I couldn't have dreamt up such a devious machination!

Crap.. forgot this was an RA event.. You have enough coefficients yet to get past their no turbo cars rule? They haven't been all that willing to hand out exceptions to that.. and there is that kinda wadded up talon...

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This isn't floor mat anarchy

I interpret the rule a little definitely. You're not racing under your CARS license. RA is just honoring your Canadian license and offering a rally America license for a reduced rate. You're still applying for a rally America license in order to compete. Thus you still need to meet their guidelines for license applications.

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Intercom and electronics dude. www.zerodegreec.ca



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2012 05:22PM by zerodegreec.