Pikes Peak Evo Crash

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zerodegreec
I dont live in your legal crazy country where everyone sues for every little thing. I live up in the great white north. BUT you are responsable for your actions especially as a professional engineer.

I would go so far to stay that most engineers (aside from Civil Engineers) in the US are not classified as "professional" engineers ie licensed. Not sure what being a professional engineer means up north or if this guy is one.

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-KTurner
Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel.

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DaveK
What I wish to see is all the interwebz fanbois who are pleading for this guy to build them a cage to know that good advice was ignored and that it *almost* cost someone their life.

Unfortunately 99.9% of those internet fanbois are too much in debt with their cars and suburban homes to be able to actually pay to have someone build them a cage and the $6-15k to make it into a real rally/race car.

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Grant Hughes

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Anders Green

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heymagic
I'm very happy to see so many rally people understanding why safety rules are made, even tho many are unpopular at first.

Sure like to see NRS change their cage rules....

Huh? That's not a NRS cage. Is someone saying it's an NRS cage? I thought the builder has been saying that it's NOT a rally cage.

The NRS spec for cages has, as "Required Element 6", the additional A pillar support bar, and as "Required Element 5", the sill bar, of which I see neither in those pictures.

*confused*

Anders

You're easier to confuse than I thought today... no one said it was a rally cage. Several people have commented on the lack of strength in the main hoop...which is a NRS accepted design. I can just imagine the peanut gallery if a rally car with that main hoop crashed and deformed and the occupants survived getting the tar and feathers looking for Anders...even tho eveyrone was ok.

Everyone needs to realize that metal bends, wood breaks, cloth tears, buildings fall down etc. Shit happens. No one here can absolutely say a current RA cage or FIA cage or NRS cage built to minimum specs would have fared enough better to matter. You can surmise it, but you can't actually say it. That cage design was an acceptable design for many years, if fact 10 years ago people would have thought it pretty damn good.

Anything that is engineered is engineered to a certain spec, no cage is engineered to never bend or collapse. No engineer can forsee what may happen to his work. Who the fuck would ever think a jet airliner would be flown into the side of a building?? Who would guess a bizarre micro cell would drop into a Sugarland concert and kill people? Who would guess that certain SooperBitchin struts would have PlayDoh ears??

Get over yourselves....right now you may still be lucky to find someone stupid enough to scrutineer cars at the nextr event.

Racing is a risk...the upside is it is fun as hell, the downside is it may be the last fun thing you ever do.

And John, Timm doesn't have to march to your drum. If you don't approve of his endeavors then too fucking bad. Maybe he should wait until next year and find we have no events to run.

Course you can say it, watch, I'm just gonna inhale then modulate me vocal chords while expelling air...............there I just said it...

I didn't say it with much intention of certainty.

And I didn't mention Timmy, he's too smart to listen, I know that...
But since you brought it up, it of the exact same sort of stupidity.
That is "unfamiliar everything" from car to venue to the surface, lack of anything resembling judgement, and a basic fundamental mistake about one's abilities to reason.

Same underlying conditions.

just saying...

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

This is just a quick Google search. This is true across Canada and from what I know I believe its world wide.
Professional Engineer

So like I said a few times before, If this guy is actaully an Engineer he is 100% open to legal action and loose his licence.

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Intercom and electronics dude. www.zerodegreec.ca



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2012 09:23PM by zerodegreec.

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zerodegreec
This is just a quice Google search. This is true across Canada and from what I know I believe its world wide.
Professional Engineer

So like I said a few times before, If this guy is actaully an Engineer he is 100% open to legal action and loose his licence.

Legal action for what?? The people survived..yes?? Cage deformed but the actual work was ok..yes? Cage was built to or above the REQUIRED spec for the event..yes?

Do you for one second think he , or anyone, would absolutely say you can drop this car off of Pike's Peak and the cage won't collapse?

I sincerely hope you don't intend to enter Olympus....

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heymagic
Legal action for what?? The people survived..yes?? Cage deformed but the actual work was ok..yes? Cage was built to or above the REQUIRED spec for the event..yes?

Do you for one second think he , or anyone, would absolutely say you can drop this car off of Pike's Peak and the cage won't collapse?

I sincerely hope you don't intend to enter Olympus....

Last time I say it, or anything on this thread for that matter. The problem was that it was not adiquate for the second occupant. Luck saved the co-driver (and his helmet/hans). The car failed to preform for his side of the car. He is injured because of this. Again the fact that they both survived does not excuse him of his professional responsability. All it would have taken is to X the main hoop and roof. Chances are the co-drivers side would have been in much better condition.

It also concerns me that they originally planned for no co-driver. If that was the case, the cage seemed to be adiquate.

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Intercom and electronics dude. www.zerodegreec.ca



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2012 08:59PM by zerodegreec.

If he didn't sign off on the design AS AN ENGINEER then he doesn't assume liability.
He built the cage to standards set and accepted by the race oganisers, that he is an engineer only matters if he approves the design.

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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zerodegreec
This is just a quick Google search. This is true across Canada and from what I know I believe its world wide.
Professional Engineer

So like I said a few times before, If this guy is actaully an Engineer he is 100% open to legal action and loose his licence.

No, sorry. Shame, reality, pleading, no effect.
he's the worst case "engineer". If stupidity was actiononable a huge majority would be sued almost every time they opened their mouths for the first 15 years out of the colleges which spit them out.

You need criminal intent, and when the person is unable to tell right from wrong they're not able to be judged a culpable..not the Insanity defence but something close.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Course you can say it, watch, I'm just gonna inhale then modulate me vocal chords while expelling air...............there I just said it...

I didn't say it with much intention of certainty.

And I didn't mention Timmy, he's too smart to listen, I know that...
But since you brought it up, it of the exact same sort of stupidity.
That is "unfamiliar everything" from car to venue to the surface, lack of anything resembling judgement, and a basic fundamental mistake about one's abilities to reason.

Same underlying conditions.

just saying...

YAY! The rally clown!!!



Too bad you can't find a chain smoking clown with a stick up his ass :/

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

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Dazed_Driver

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john vanlandingham
Course you can say it, watch, I'm just gonna inhale then modulate me vocal chords while expelling air...............there I just said it...

I didn't say it with much intention of certainty.

And I didn't mention Timmy, he's too smart to listen, I know that...
But since you brought it up, it of the exact same sort of stupidity.
That is "unfamiliar everything" from car to venue to the surface, lack of anything resembling judgement, and a basic fundamental mistake about one's abilities to reason.

Same underlying conditions.

just saying...

YAY! The rally clown!!!


Too bad you can't find a chain smoking clown with a stick up his ass :/

Oh Timmay, don't feel bad, just pull your little pointed head out of you tight little asshole and learn. Learning isn't painful really. Stupidity is painful..
as you will doubtless soon find out.

Rather than just be a whiney spoiled punk ass why don't you display all your brilliance and expalin what is wrong with what is suggested? You are acting exactly like the moron who ruined that car this thread is about.
You can call me a clown but that's better than being an idiot which is where you are firmly entrenched in now. A lot better.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
Dazed_Driver

Quote
john vanlandingham
Course you can say it, watch, I'm just gonna inhale then modulate me vocal chords while expelling air...............there I just said it...

I didn't say it with much intention of certainty.

And I didn't mention Timmy, he's too smart to listen, I know that...
But since you brought it up, it of the exact same sort of stupidity.
That is "unfamiliar everything" from car to venue to the surface, lack of anything resembling judgement, and a basic fundamental mistake about one's abilities to reason.

Same underlying conditions.

just saying...

YAY! The rally clown!!!


Too bad you can't find a chain smoking clown with a stick up his ass :/

Oh Timmay, don't feel bad, just pull your little pointed head out of you tight little asshole and learn. Learning isn't painful really. Stupidity is painful..
as you will doubtless soon find out.

Rather than just be a whiney spoiled punk ass why don't you display all your brilliance and expalin what is wrong with what is suggested? You are acting exactly like the moron who ruined that car this thread is about.
You can call me a clown but that's better than being an idiot which is where you are firmly entrenched in now. A lot better.

Keep calling me names, eventually I may believe you.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Somebody already on the Evo forum needs to speak up, the idiot guy is still bragging what a great job he did:

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Originally Posted by KevinD View Post
I think it's pretty clear my cage held up under the most insane conditions imaginable. I have an engineering degree and followed rules set in place from years!!!! of learning the hard way.(show us your leaning) Adding extra bars doesn't always make stuff safer or stronger. Will I build another? Sure, but I had a lot of money in this car so it will be a few years to build another. My only regret on the safety was not using the window nets. We went with windows instead to improve the drivers visibility in sharp turns. When the door ripped off the car it left the passengers arms exposed.

Somebody (already on the wank forum) explain to that imbecile that that wasn't that bad of a roll, and so what about his stupid engineering degree---is he working as an engineer? Evidently not , he seems to have some Turnerz shop. or portrays himself to be a Tunerz.

Anybody making a 500 hp car who does not strengthen the shell via stitch welding and integrate the cage and the shell to be a unit for a car like that is a flat, irredeemable moron and he should be exposed for the idiot he is to prevent future catastrophes
---IF a car should hit something solid rather than skipping down a hill with glancing blows..and missing all the nasty rocks..
That fool must not have much imagination or he maybe knows how horrible he blew it and is just trying to brazen it out.

(Spoke today with a real automotive engineer at Chrysler today who I'm doing some heads and forged pistons for and he had seen this and he agreed about the downhill is glancing business and that the car was lucky to not hit anything and agreed emphatically about the insanity of not tieing the cage to shell in 20-25 points, and used my phrase 'The sum of the parts is stronger than the individual elements'.)

Amazing the arrogance.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
Dazed_Driver

Keep calling me names, eventually I may believe you.

Timmay are you such a whiney little girly boy that you can't take good advice unless somebody gives you a big hug and pats your head?
If you weren't a whiney little bitch, you wouldn't get grief.

But since you are a whiney spoiled little poutie-boy you'll get good advice and get well deserved shit together.
If fact the reason you're a whiney boy is because you haven't gotten from anywhere enough earlier, or you would have grown up.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.