Four Class Structure - CARS Bulletin 2012-05 now online
Posted by Morison
Ferdinand Trauttmansdorff Super Moderator Location: Ottawa, ON Join Date: 12/08/2007 Age: Ancient Posts: 59 |
Banned Godlike Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Mainly because speed was one of several factors. If I left the impression that speed was a primary consideration then I either mis-spoke or wasn't clear. That said, even if it wasn't mentioned, it was a consideration the board, if not the committee. Yet in two of the six years Gr5 has been around there hasn't been enough entries to award the championship and it looks like 2012 will probably also go unawarded unless someone decides to do both PFR and Pines, which means 7,000 km of towing. Interestingly, the Ontario Championship shows 5 Gr5 drivers (although at least one was a rental) scoring this year (2 last year) but still has 10 Gr2 drivers. (4 last year) Because this was a wholesale revision. That suggests everything was a consideration. Yes and no. Few of us would be doing this if we weren't 'competitive' types. Entry numbers had nothing to do with the cancellations. One year was fire hazard level. Two years were a lack of people deluded enough to help organise the event. (I understand PFR is struggling for 'day of' volunteers as well) As did HANS Devices and FIA Seats. The hit from those was heavy for organisers and took, probably, four years to recover. Unless the competitors are successful in appealing to CARS to change the rules to allow larger displacement turbo engines. Actually, it also includes the 2.5l engines from VW, Mazda and others. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015 
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2012 02:42PM by Morison. |
Banned Godlike Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Happy to stand corrected. I even took a look back at the 2011 CRC standings and in terms of starters in G5 the count was 2,2,1,1,3,3. Finishers were 1,1,0,1,1,0. 12 entries total from 6 unique drivers. (G2 was 4,2,7,3,2,5 starters and 0,1,4,1,2,3 for finishers - 23 entries from 14 unique drivers. 2012, so far, is 1,2,0,0 for starters and 1,0,0,0 for finishers. 3 entries from 3 unique drivers nationally. Then get in touch with Darryl and Ray and make sure they hear your concerns and how you would like to see the new rules changed. If I were suitably pissed off I'd copy the entire board, and office, on my email. All the email addresses are available online. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2012 02:27PM by Morison. |
Banned Godlike Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
One of the strange things happeing in this discussion is that people are saying that Gr5 cars are being restricted because the open class cars were going too fast and that it doesn't make any sense.
The thing is ... no one from CARS, or the class change committee, ever said Gr5 was being restricted because they are too fast in a global sense or that 'they' wanted to keep them slower than the open cars. I've said before, but will reiterate, that the restrictor on Gr5 cars exists to work at leveling the playing field between Gr5 and Gr2 cars. By combining the classes, 2/3 of the competitors in the class are saddled with 'underdog' cars and are even more of an underdog without the resirictors. The argument that a well driven Gr2 car can beat a poorly driven Gr5 car doesn't fly. Competitive drivers will always make sure their cars are built to the class they are in and will maximise what they can do within their budgets. If the classes were merged without restrictions, Gr2 drivers would have to make major changes if they wanted to bring a gun to a gun fight. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2012 02:41PM by Morison. |
Ferdinand Trauttmansdorff Super Moderator Location: Ottawa, ON Join Date: 12/08/2007 Age: Ancient Posts: 59 |
Chris Martin Godlike Moderator Location: Toronto, Ontario Join Date: 01/15/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 567 Rally Car: E-85 powered Impreza |
John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Banned Senior Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
But with a relatively light car, a motor that will rev and the final drive turns that revs into torque. . A relatively heavier car, and even with no restrictor probably not revving much past 7 ever, maybe a "OK" box and maybe 4.27 final drive.
Waht we've come to call round these parts "the beauty of 2wd"
Maybe, but even with short gearing around (total box x diff) 5 :1 they'll still do 170 km/hr @ 7000
Only those who got motor fixated---which is the unfortunate fate of too many..
If they got a stable car.
That IS the point, isn't it obvious?
Yep. Should be pretty obvious. Shoul be...  John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Banned Godlike Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
You seem obsessed by the term tuner. Maybe to clarify, the committee talked to several respected rally car builders and engine builders each with significant and respected competition and preparation experience. Maybe you missed it - I admitted my assessment was wrong. I'm always willing to accept when I am wrong. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Banned Mega Moderator Location: Red Deer, Alberta Join Date: 09/13/2011 Posts: 717 Rally Car: 2002 Subaru WRX STi |
John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Banned Godlike Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Except that over 17 years of the Group 2 championship there has always been a winner, it has never gone unawarded. Also, from an ottawa base, you can qualify for the Canadian Championship while towing a TOTAL of 1100km. 2012 to date Gr2: 4,4,6,4 starts, 2,4,4,1 finishes - 18 entries over 12 unique drivers and two events left. YTD change over last year: raw numbers(percentage of 2011 entries): Gr2: 0,+2(200%),-1(86%),+1(133%) Gr5: -1(50%),0,-1(0%),-1(0%) But the cross border issue is still a concern for you and I urge you to make that known to CARS. If you think a groundswell of support on any web forum will be heard by CARS, you're wrong. Although the 'new' production rules are far less restrictive... but that's another can of worms. But we're back to talking about classing the drivers, not the cars. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Banned Godlike Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Um... rally cars and engines. (duh) In all seriousness the names of the shops don't really matter. They are, in the eyes of the committee, reputable and informed sources. I can assure you cost was a part of the discussion. Being that I was involved in discussions about the cost of restrictors to G5 cars I can assure you there was thought given to it. Restrictiors in Gr5 did not come about from the concerns about the average speeds being maxed out. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Michel Hoche-Mong Godlike Moderator Location: Campbell, CA Join Date: 02/28/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,156 Rally Car: Golf, Golf, RX-3 |
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