Tom B Elite Moderator Location: Douche Canoe, WA Join Date: 02/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 780 Rally Car: VW Golf |
Kevin Turner Super Moderator Location: Newark, DE Join Date: 01/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 364 Rally Car: 2wd Impreza... dude you should do an sti swap |
Banned Super Moderator Location: Red Deer, Alberta Join Date: 09/13/2011 Posts: 717 Rally Car: 2002 Subaru WRX STi |
Ford doesn't really need to "buy" a championship (look at who won the 2wd championship how many years in a row?) They simply need to take a decent driver/codriver (Zedrils/PeteK/Nichols come to mind) and put them in a R2. Championship won! As for excitement, uh, the national championship is actually pretty bitchin' right now. The top 10 is (IMO) waaaaaaaaay more competitive than in the US. Now we just need to get the top 6-10 from out east to come out west for the nationals and we'd have a kick-ass full on national season. As for the other rallyists, unless you are pushing as hard as Duplessis (or Mr. McNelly (sp?) he was pretty quick!) then you are going to look boring. A slowly driven rwd car is still boring. Boring is boring. I've saw a lot of god-awful driving in awd cars that makes me cringe. It is what it is. Once again, I ask you what you think the point of a NATIONAL, TELEVISED championship is? If you watch CRC TV, it's not about the racing. It's about the people and the story. People eat that crap up. And if there was a 2wd story to be told (when the Zedrils raced, there was), it would be. It's about getting interest in rallying in Canada. The new structure vastly closes an individual cars competitive advantages over another within a specific class. The rules quite closely follow what Canadians have been doing in 2WD across Canada (this is where most of the angst seems to be leveled). Kevin is the only one in Western Canada that this affects, and I don't even know when his car will be complete. Last time I saw it, he was finagling together some sort of close-ratio steering rack and I don't think it even has a cage in it? While it would suck to be sold out of all the hard work he has put in, so far, his actual rally related expenses APPEAR to be minimal (he'd have to chime in on that). I feel for the guy, it sucks! I do have a Volvo sitting here with a perfectly fine motor in it though... little headwork, more aggressive cam, closer rear end gears... hmmmmm... if the intent is to just get out and race cheaply, it doesn't matter what he runs in his car. If the intent is to get out and race competitively, well, I reserve judgement to say that car is probably not the one to do it in. Considering we have 4 snow/ice/mud events, I can say I'm 80% certain that car is NOT the one to do it in. A fairly well known, national 2wd competitor (Eric Grochowski, also RallyWest's CARS board rep) played a fairly significant role in these rules. I don't want to put words in Eric's mouth, but I'd say he is one of the most INTUNE rallyists with 2wd rallying in Canada. And he was (for a long time) poor ballz and rallied on the cheap. Hell, he still does. I see these rules as a rallyings equivalent of social engineering. (this is from my perspective of what is happening). There are vehicles we want to push beginning competitors into (neon, golf, fosuc, civic). If they want to run newer cars, they can use the B-spec variety that are becoming rallied world round. There are vehicles that could be considered overdogs that we don't want being used to slaughter other well prepped cars, all other things being equal. As Keith pointed out, the championship can't be built around driver skill (oh how I wish!), so the rules have to be put in place even if at the current time they aren't meaningful (or even a slight step backwards at the time). Martin's car actually won't require a retune I reckon. You can slap a restrictor in anything and not require a retune, especially if the car is relatively stock (when have you heard of a car blowing up because you RESTRICTED airflow into the motor? Well you don't, because at worst it would run rich if we were dealing with early 80's electronics). I am willing to bet his car will make close to the magical 200whp with a restrictor that most state is what you can get away with on gravel. So how is he really affected? If he has the skillz to pay the billz, his car at 200whp or 300whp shouldn't matter, should it? And it will still makes GOBS of TORQUES, in fact, I thought due to the increase in velocity through the restrictor that you actually get more torque sooner in the powerband? So again, I ask, who does this affect that actually competes in Canada? The answer is, not many. As for people getting into rallying, out west here, Volvos, BMWs, and Merkurs are NOT cheap. At least, not cheap enough to garnish the angst coming forth about these rules and how it will be the demise of rallying. If a rule change is enough to stop you from starting rallying, well, I have news for you... you ain't gonna make it long. If changing something on your car in your warmly lit garage is enough to make you turn tail, what happens when you wreck a trailer axle on the side of the transcanada 2000kms away from home at midnight when it is below freezing? Just call it quits? There is a well of knowledge in building other, perfectly reliable cars. I'd wager that nowadays, prep work trumps what car you are actually running durability-wise. Plus not being a knucklehead driver. All drivers are knuckleheads, but I digress. Well, that turned from a small post to a rant now, didn't it?
Realistically, some of these guys have been around for a while. And they haven't competed in Canada yet and/or often. Yes, it is negative, and yes, they probably shouldn't plan on competing in Canada all other things aside. Does it suck? Sure. But hopefully they will be welcome regionally, and is that not good enough? Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 01:03PM by HiTempguy. |
Banned Godlike Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
As in 'the rules were changed at Ford's request' or 'the rules were changed to attract Ford (or any other specific manufacturer)' then you heard wrong. CARS is regularly talking with manufacturers about getting involved with the series in a number of ways. The best way to 'buy' any championship is through contingency programs and team sponsorship. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015 
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Grant Hughes Elite Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
Banned Super Moderator Location: Red Deer, Alberta Join Date: 09/13/2011 Posts: 717 Rally Car: 2002 Subaru WRX STi |
Was that pointed at me? I said competitive, I didn't say faster. Come on Grant, at least keep pace with the conversation please?  Yes, getting the likes of the top 5 in each country to compete would make for a stunning series... kind of like the ERC?
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John Lane Mega Moderator Location: Lynden Washington Join Date: 01/14/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 725 Rally Car: The Fire Breathing Monster |
John Lane Mega Moderator Location: Lynden Washington Join Date: 01/14/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 725 Rally Car: The Fire Breathing Monster |
Banned Super Moderator Location: Red Deer, Alberta Join Date: 09/13/2011 Posts: 717 Rally Car: 2002 Subaru WRX STi |
The problem of meeting a mandatory maximum average speed and keeping compeition within classes close so as to not only prevent overdog cars, but to also entice manufacturers into a series where they won't be hampered by running their new cars. Chicanes have a number of issues to them that have been discussed ad nauseum. You either A) slow the road down/new roads or  have slower cars. The other issues, again, this has been made at a national level, they have different priorities than the regions do.
2wd is not enough of a restriction, or else we wouldn't be having this conversation. I just provided you with an example at a regional where a driver (who is decent) took a turbo 2.0L car to the maximum average speed on ice/snow/mud/gravel which had 3 or 4 big chicanes on the stage. So something has to be done. This (along with a whole bunch of other issues) is how it has been decided to be resolved. I am almost quite certain that a 2wd car with 300whp throws rocks just as hard as a car with 500whp (in a sense) so I fail to see your reasoning. The car will still sound gnarly, make lots of noise, and throw rocks sideways in a stupendous fashion. Understand, I am not arguing CARS point for them, as I disagree with some of it as well. But that is the rationale (from what I understand) behind the decisions. |
Oh look, waffles.... Infallible Moderator Location: Earth Join Date: 03/06/2012 Posts: 103 Rally Car: see you on the stages |
Billy Elliot Mann Junior Moderator Location: Royal Oak, MI Join Date: 08/11/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 557 Rally Car: 1996 Honda Civic with VTEC YO! |
John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Banned Godlike Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
yet you repeatedly said here that you treat others as they treat you, which is not only opposite in intent but also misses the entire point of 'do unto others.' (Fundamentally, it's saying even if someone is a douche to you, take the high road and treat them with respect) See, this is why you have so much problem communicating with people. You're looking for hidden messages in casual communication. I highly doubt that anyone here spends a lot of time focusing on the language, certainly not enough to craft a subtext of hidden messages for you. For the past six years or so I've been sitting on the CARS board of directors first as an elected board member and then as the marketing manager. Most people around here know that. Because I sit in on the board meetings, I am exposed to privileged information that is, by its nature, confidential. (If it makes any difference, I was one of the people who pushed hard for the board meeting minutes to be readily available on the CARS website. I was first elected because I wanted to improve transparency and accountability of CARS to the competitors and clubs. In an organization like CARS - volunteer run - change takes time.) As Marketing Manager, I'm also the one who is talking with, and negotiating with, current and potential sponsors. So, yes, I do have access to more information than many and to some information and conversations that most won't. I share what I can of that perspective in order to foster transparency. How is that a bad thing. Wow, what a slap in the face to volunteers and organizers everywhere. Without these 'deluded' people you wouldn't have events to build cars for at all. Call me all the names you want - I really don't care - but to take such an all encompassing swipe at people who give their own time, money and passion for the sport so others can play is disgusting. And generally supported by a tight community of people who support, share knowledge and foster the 'newbies' as they learn and grow. Yah, I've basically stepped back from even co-driving because volunteering was interfering and not letting me focus on event as much as I should. Owning and driving a car isn't a priority for me, I actually prefer co-driving but might take another run behind the steering wheel some day. But I also organize and help organize events. Having sustainable entries for those events is important to me. But... to be clear... neither Adam nor I had a vote on these class changes. While Adam suggests my opinion carries significant weight with the board, I'm confident he's overestimating my influence. I say, and have said, 'voice your concern to the CARS board regarding the new car classes and propose changes in the new rules that you think would be better solutions.' Take a few minutes, think about the situation and write a few emails. (really, write one email and copy a few people on it.) This might lead to a dialogue that might lead to change. CARS has an open rule change process but if you want change you have to participate in it. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
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