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Morison

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john vanlandingham
An[y] person with an ounce of brains knows---and has more than ample evidence---that a properly built 2wd n.a. rally car can and does often match and beat the "normal" 2wd turbo cars.

Cars don't beat cars, drivers do.

As has been said time and time again, the CARS rules process is an open one and rule change requests are welcomed. Making the request doesn't guarantee the change but it's better than just whining about it. (Although some people love being the victim and see conspiracy all around them.)

And some people are just flat stupid and love being smug, conceited assholes.
And are so fundamentally dishonest, so used to concealing the truth, that is its a habit.

But then again, that's just a general observation, just like yours.
Because even though you responded to my post, you could not be attempting in your typical evasive way that you think is clever, you could not possibly be referring to me..

And note, Morison. I've been doing this shit decades longer than you. Some people in the various decision making roles have in the past called and related their frustrations at the deal making and flat fabrications done "explaining" why things are done. To quote one "I was flat diusgusting, i was nearly really sick to my stomach at the shit going on in that (an SCCA Pro rally Board meeting) , and I thought i was going to vomit right there. And I was furious"
Why they call, anybody's guess.
But don't sit there and pretend there's not a lot if shit going on, and anybody expressing their disgust at idiocy is loving being "a victim" or a conspiracy nut.
There's always a bunch of shit going on.
That is probably why worldwide, in every country that I can read or speak with people, everybody universally hates their Federation.
Quite probably the one thing every rally car owners has in common with every other one worldwide.
Banks, meter maids/parking wardens, and the federation. 3 universal truths.

Why don't you try and absorb some of the questions posed?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I had a response written for you John but thought about it and there really is no point in trying to discuss anything with you.
I was directly exposed to the process (IE: around the virtual table during the discussions) but you suggest I'm either lying or don't know 'shit' when I see it. You can't accept it when what your paranoid mind tells you must be the case, isn't.

Carrying this on is pointless.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 12:51AM by Morison.

John it must be miserable inside your head with the venom that drips from allot of your posts. As much as you obviously loathe Keith, I doubt that any words of praise for the man would ever sink in. But for what its worth, The man works hard for the sport in my own back yard and without exception I have not meet a person in our little band of brothers (and sisters) that has anything but commendable things to say. Unfortunately the number of people willing to stand at the front of the line to do the UN-glamorous work behind the scenes can be counted on one hand. I am quite sure that every organization is in need of more support yet we manage to beat down the very people carrying the burden.

John with your self proclaimed long list of life experiences you should have come to the conclusion that with all types of racing the majority of members are of the Alpha personality type. No matter WHAT is done or decisions made, the minority will stay silent and the rest will always claim the sky is falling and its being run into the ground.

Keith, Adam and anyone else reading these post that are involved with the CARS scene, I hope you can smile and look past the negative and press on.

Not that I need to explain my posts but I do want to make sure they are not taken the wrong way. The rules actually work in favor of our team. Very little needs to be done to make our car fit nicely into P4WD. I was being the devils advocate and thinking of the teams that have put money into a car based on the current rule set. Changes of this magnitude are IMHO a little abrupt for the small amount of time before implementation.

As I am sure you will, Flame on John .

For everyone else, KCCO

---

Intercom and electronics dude. www.zerodegreec.ca



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2012 11:21PM by zerodegreec.

Quote
NoCoast
The absolute worst precedent and STUPIDEST thing done in this whole thing is requiring restrictors in 2WD cars and no turbos in Production cars.
The new Chevy Cruze on paper looks like it could be a decent rally car but it's a 1.4L turbo which means Open which means restrictor possibly. I'd not be surprised if many of the 2WD newer cars with turbos have compressor inlet housings smaller than 34 mm but still.
If my Production based Chevy Cruze can mop the floor of a stock Ford Fiesta if driven properly, why not let Production compete against production.

But this is still on a national level. Regionals can adopt their own rules to allow different cars, no? They could very well classify all 2WD together, max attack style, if they wanted to?

Side note, I hope the Michigan Triple Crown or whatever they name it kicks off next year. I'd be perfectly fine running the 3 events and calling it a year. Would save me some cash by keeping events close to me. But I owe Mary 100AW at least this year, since we didn't get to run it last year.

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Morison
We all know that with the current state of the sport, the driver makes far more difference than the car does. I competed with a PGT driver who was a fast driver and we regularly beat most of the open class field that we were running against.

BUT - when building class frameworks you simply can't consider the driver in the spec because we don't have driver classes. You have consider that when the competition gets tight, the cars get pointier. Big horsepower G5 cars also get an advantage when the roads get faster and grippier and all the driver has to do is hold the foot down. (Lane in Pomeroy, not saying he can't drive but a grid road rally will favour cars that can get to higher speeds)

So I think the Gr2 guy really does get screwed when you take an 'easy 200 hp, spendy 300 hp' class and pit them against 'easy 300 hp, spendy 500 hp
cars.

When has the sport been overrun with pointy 2wd cars? I understand the need for restrictions when we have, hell, 5-7 drivers at the top of each class fighting for seconds, but we don't have two at most events. North and South of the border if you are a moderately quick driver with a bunch of spare cash, you can run the national curcuit and collect your trophy. It seems like to me there is some other motivation for the change in regulations....I can't see a huge class restriction spurring on anyone to build a car.

John Lane's car in Pomeroy.....you know we beat him in my 120hp rabbit on the first stage before we rolled; I'm not saying we had a faster car or I am a beter driver, John is fast and his car is fast, I'm saying it doesn't matter what people are driving, lets get more people out, not make absurd classes that end up restricting movement/options....

I think the gr2 guy laughs all the way to the bank when his piece of crap throttles a group 5/pgt/sp/open class car.

---

-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
Spitfire EFI | Product Apparel | JVAB Imports | NLS | AP Tuning | USRT

Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA

Quote
zerodegreec
John it must be miserable inside your head with the venom that drips from allot of your posts.

Every human being has seen awhatever their life is of good and bad.

It's fine inside my head. I just have no patience for bureacrats and idiots in decision making positions, and people that are in responsible positions should know what their are legislating, and obviously they don't =---oh wait, I forgot, they talked to turnerz... Right.

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As much as you obviously loathe Keith,

I live by a rule: as ye would have others do unto you so shall ye do unto them. You may have heard it at some point. The thing is, I look at dialog and words for not only the superficial "obvious' meaning but also what the words don't say, and what the words imply..
Most people who have lived submerged in other cultures must do this to understand everything new in the new language and culture otherwise you interactions and language is like 'Indian talk",

Most continue to "read" signs and symbols and see implications when they are back in their own language and culture.

And then there's experience... When you have been daily up to your chin in motorsport for I dunno, 43 years, after a while you hear similar things from this person or the other...

And I have heard people 'talk" just like Morison enough.
Obviously I find the way he responds to people extremely annoying, alluding to 'reserved" or inner circle knowlege he can't say anything about,
a posture. an artifice.

You know as well as I that if you have a pulse and are deluded enough to volunteer for an event position or a regional position is nearly like "let the lucky man take one step forward" and everybody else goes zIIIiiip one step back.
That's the same everywhere.
problem is in obscure little sports with just a sparse handful of people involved in any way, the pool of volunteers is even more spares..
So you get volunteers who maybe have only been peripherally involved in some part time capacity in decision making roles.
It's kinda the same problem every noob faces: go to every event you can in a year and its still only 4 hours seat time in a year.

Is this clear?

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I doubt that any words of praise for the man would ever sink in. But for what its worth, The man works hard for the sport in my own back yard and without exception I have not meet a person in our little band of brothers (and sisters) that has anything but commendable things to say. Unfortunately the number of people willing to stand at the front of the line to do the UN-glamorous work behind the scenes can be counted on one hand. I am quite sure that every organization is in need of more support yet we manage to beat down the very people carrying the burden.

Oh I've heard "well he's not really the obnoxious whiny annoying asshole he comes across as" from many people.
And I understand the lack of people for every position (why do you think I teach people how to weld, how to do engine assembly, if they are patient and listen so I can explain that they already have experience that is useful and applicable/transferrable, that they can get a clearer 'approach' to the whole silly mess of trying to do sustainble participation? Why do you think I try and get them to think: why do this versus why do that? Not here, but on the phone, and in person.)
Some volunteer to be "functionairies:..
Some volunteer to do something that the others can take away themselves and if the choose, build on.

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John with your self proclaimed long list of life experiences

hey what's with the implied snotty--- "with your self proclaimed" stuff/ See? You can say what you want but that is a dig or a little snippy thing---that's the sort of thing that I find lame. limp, catty.. You have something to say, say it.
I can't help it if I haven't just lived in one shit hole all my life, but I did do an awful lotta stuff in motorsport that nobody else here has (full time paid for driving, doing 5-7 events a month in half a dozen counties) and that does give a wider perspective, and when you do it daily for 40 plus years it gives a deeper perspective.

If I was just to simply assert shit like "Do this or you're an asshole" or "we've talked to tunerz and they said ....." then I would be what I despise: a putz.
Background counts, names of who told you whatever
count, , those peoples' position in the hierarchy does count.
All opinions are not equal.

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you should have come to the conclusion that with all types of racing the majority of members are of the Alpha personality type.

Yeah. But they can be A type fucks all day, but that doesn't mean anything they say is right, or smart, or good. Indeed both a major part of strength and weakness in type A types is they are convinced that whatever little stomach acid burp generated thought they have is brilliant and they MAY, by sheer abstinence and stupidity, eventually attain some transitory, lame meaningless goal---and probably at way past any reasonable cost.

The problem is when these type A fucktards forget that what they spend 8 hours of time all day is maybe what they really know, and that they should shut the fuck up when other people doing something for 8 hours a day for a dozen or 20 years, tells them something...

But no, they challenge. They don't ask "Oi, howzat work, eh?" They (seemingly) randomly find some obscure detail and say "I never did ______________, but lemme tell you what I think. I think you're wrong"

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No matter WHAT is done or decisions made, the minority will stay silent and the rest will always claim the sky is falling and its being run into the ground.

Maybe those making the decisions should be smart enough not to fuck with things, to think thru what their no other way to look at it but narrow part time view has led them to believe.

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Keith, Adam and anyone else reading these post that are involved with the CARS scene, I hope you can smile and look past the negative and press on.

Well Adam doesn't have to park his car, does he? And Morison doesn't seem to run a car, or desire to... so he's not facing throwing away a perfectly good enough 2300 8v turbo motor that cost nothing since it came in the car, No negative for them.
What do you say to Zidkovitch? Derow, Buren, Poier, Medcroft, Kun, all of whom get to throw away motors if they want to do a Merritt National? and thus delay further their fun. that seems kinda negative, doesn't it.
How much do you think they are just smiling...?

Your reply IMPLIES ", rules are rules. I'm smiling. Tough shit for those guys. I don't know 'em , them so fuck 'em. My buddies came up with these rules so whatever".

You MAY NOT have intended to convey that, i don't know. I'm just showing how just ordinary words can convey a feeling of contemptuousness for others.
Which CAN be offensive, and CAN be felt as negative.



And none of this insulting paternalistic shit, please (<-------please, I said please! that's polite, and minty fresh positive---)-"well they can run the regional, maybe, 9for a while) maybe"
Do you see the negative in that type of answer?
If you can't i can't help you.

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As I am sure you will, Flame on John .

Again as far as I understand forum lingo, 'flame' has some negative connotation..and some element of being dismissive.
So that seems dismissive and I dunno,taunting or something.

Come on, really just what is a person supposed to answer to a long uh wait---what do people always describe every response as oh! yeah--- your diatribe...or your ranting?

Just "oh, yeah, like.
whatever"


So tell us, what are all the guys with 2300 8v turbos and the guys that really have worked hard to make some of the cleanest builds I've seen in these 3.0 n.a. BMWs supposed to do, really?

Not bother thinking about Canada?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 02:31AM by john vanlandingham.

As Grant mentioned already with all the 1.0-1.6 liter turbo engines either here or coming shortly from main stream manufacturers I don't understand how requiring these things to have restricters makes any sense at all for 2wd, or provides any incentive to participate, or provides any cost containment.

---

Quote
Morison
[jvl] Ohh noooohs! There's an h'off tawpik thread in the gent-urinal dick-cushion four-hum. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!![/jvl]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 04:22AM by RallyTaco.

If it doesn't make sense, it must make money.

---

Jason McDaniel

Quote
john vanlandingham
What do you say to Zidkovitch? Derow, Buren, Poier, Medcroft, Kun, all of whom get to throw away motors if they want to do a Merritt National? and thus delay further their fun. that seems kinda negative, doesn't it.
How much do you think they are just smiling...?

When is the last time any of them actually ran any Canadian event, let alone a National?

alan

I think that it is pretty funny that a bunch of guys who have never even competed in Canada would have such strong opinions about what the Canadians should do.

alan

Heard a rumor that Ford was trying to buy a 2wd championship...that might could explain a lot.

Quote
tipo158
I think that it is pretty funny that a bunch of guys who have never even competed in Canada would have such strong opinions about what the Canadians should do.

alan

I competed in Canada before your Mommy missed wiping your ass and gave you that complex you suffer from.
First race licence ever Canada
First National ever Canada
Last rally driving Canada
Honeymoon Canada.
last event driven: Canada

And anybody from Oregon, Idaho , Washington Montana, Wyoming Great Lakes, New York and New England I see, I push HARD the idea of going to Canada. Always since the LATE 60s. but even moreso as the ( you ready)
Stupid, pointless indefensible , bullshit rule prohibiting even a stock turbo car as a beginning vehicle was adopted by another cabal you may be familiar with.

So, Alan WRONG as usual.
Yeah real funny.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 01:29PM by john vanlandingham.

Quote
heymagic
Heard a rumor that Ford was trying to buy a 2wd championship...that might could explain a lot.

Well Obviously this will do wonders for how exciting it is to go rallying in Canada.... Just think! Spectators need no longer worry about being pelted with rocks that have been thrown from the drive wheels of a rallycar from 60' or more.... All the better to just line up along the stage and watch all but the anointed buzz slowly past....

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

Quote
modernbeat
If it doesn't make sense, it must make money.

Yep, but in this case, for who?
Hey Jason been fixing a intermittant dead 900 Saab of an long lost cutie pie from Texas last couple of days.. Hilarious her telling me about her yard adventures over the weekend, bugs and brush up to there, 100f, sweating, me finding PNs and theren photos of the damn ignition amplifier then sending them so she's talking on one phone and looking at photos in email in the other phone.. damn sure have some fiesty ones down there.
been 20 years and when she was stuck, she tracked me down>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
JohnLane

Quote
heymagic
Heard a rumor that Ford was trying to buy a 2wd championship...that might could explain a lot.

Well Obviously this will do wonders for how exciting it is to go rallying in Canada.... Just think! Spectators need no longer worry about being pelted with rocks that have been thrown from the drive wheels of a rallycar from 60' or more.... All the better to just line up along the stage and watch all but the anointed buzz slowly past....

Exactly...now people will be able to get a good look at the cars. The big complaint was they couldn't see the cars go by because of rocks thrown by brutes like yourself.