So what's going on with the RA negotiations?

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NoCoast

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mekilljoydammit
This got sort of off topic. Maybe I should just make a new thread about this sort of thing while I'm at work.

As a Mega Moderator I thus banish you to the sin bin.
Just kidding. How often do regular conversations stay on topic. In my opinion, there is no such thing as off topic and threads should be allowed to go where they want to go.
.

Right you are. In truth many of the best insights I have had in many areas were gems tripped over in waaaaaaaaaaaay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay subjects.
Sometimes, often even, they were relevant to whatever the conversation WAS but what it organically developed into....
Who is to say in advance what the subject is SUPPOSED to be...

Enlightenment is in my opinion the thing soppro tutto.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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john vanlandingham
Who is to say in advance what the subject is SUPPOSED to be...

I don't know...the "Subject" box on the thread?

Tim.

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TronDD

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john vanlandingham
Who is to say in advance what the subject is SUPPOSED to be...

I don't know...the "Subject" box on the thread?

Tim.

But that's just a starting point of a dialog and
as Dr. Science says "There is a thin line between ignorance and arrogance," he says, "and only I have managed to erase that line."

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Well, I don't want to inadvertently be a dick. But whatever, game on. I'll do some thinking out loud about RWD stuff for dual purposes use because... well, because that's what I'm looking at.

Now, looking at the actual written rules to refresh my memory... STU RX-7 minimum weight with an RX-8 motor (what I see as a good Group2 configuration) would be 2300 pounds as SCCA weighs it - that is to say, with driver. Which prooooobably ain't happening - could run it there still, and at the club level who cares, but at the national level it'd be more a mid-pack car. But STL (next class down) would let it run at 3000lbs minimum weight, which should easily be doable. STL requires smaller brake rotors though, to the tune of 11.4x1.1" maximum rotor size, which leaves out the nice cheap roundyround bits. Important thing though is that it would be close to correct... except the ST* classes want a stock diff housing for some asinine reason. On a club level basis, nobody would give a shit, but at national championships someone might look.

Incidentally, for other people thinking about this stuff, SCCA lets turbo cars into STU with weight based on how big of a restrictor you run. A G5 rally Xratty with driver and turbo would end up at what, maybe 2700-2800 pounds? Which means a 35 or 36mm restrictor to run it on track with SCCA - yeah I know, and then developing a motor that likes a restrictor. Still, it's not exactly small.

It just seems to me that in terms of SCCA classing, STU is a pretty reasonable place to run stuff built as rally cars. Or if you're in a NASA area... well, the ST/STR class they have pretty much goes on power/weight so it could fit there.

Incidentally, how tolerant in the real world would Bilstein based rally struts be to running the 'wrong' spring rates? STU is on DOT tires so I'd guesstermate only needing like, 450lb/in front, 250lb/in rear, and I seem to recall Dave Kern's BMW being on something like 300/175. Swapping whole suspension between rally and roadrace configurations is possible and easy, but just swapping springs would be nicer.

what about a Mazda 2, Spec B?

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

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mekilljoydammit
Incidentally, how tolerant in the real world would Bilstein based rally struts be to running the 'wrong' spring rates? STU is on DOT tires so I'd guesstermate only needing like, 450lb/in front, 250lb/in rear, and I seem to recall Dave Kern's BMW being on something like 300/175. Swapping whole suspension between rally and roadrace configurations is possible and easy, but just swapping springs would be nicer.

BMW now has 300f 200r springs.

To answer the question, I don't think it'd be very good. The other thought I've got is that swapping an entire shock with spring to another shock with spring is going to be much quicker than monkeying around with spring swaps.

On my Evo, here's the general specs on the different suspensions setups:

Gravel: 315f/315r springs
Tarmac: 640f/815r springs

The thing to keep in mind is that if the class just requires DOT tires...the Hoosier A6 has a DOT stamp and that's the hot tire to run if your races are ~20 minutes in duration. If longer than that, the R6 is probably the better choice. FWIW, I ran A6s on the Evo at the Buttonwillow GTA event and I think I need more spring rate...I had left it "soft" for PPIHC because I didn't want a knife-edge car, but for track duty, I see that as less of an issue, what with proper runoff and such.

Dave

B-spec... I want to be able to fix things that don't work right, not just put up with them because everyone else also has to. Spec classes have their point, but I just have a thing against them. Plus, is the spec cage anywhere near rally legal?

Dave, you're probably right that it's likely not a great idea; it's just tempting. And yeah, I know about the Hoosiers (though never was willing to trust As for race distance; always had to use 205 wide ones in ITA) and on the 7s, that much spring rate hasn't ever been necessary on the IT cars... but then again, I'm still (always) learning.

i figured i can use my rx7 for dual duty between rallying, and autox/hillclimbs. since its an Rx7 and all that

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

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mekilljoydammit
Dave, you're probably right that it's likely not a great idea; it's just tempting. And yeah, I know about the Hoosiers (though never was willing to trust As for race distance; always had to use 205 wide ones in ITA) and on the 7s, that much spring rate hasn't ever been necessary on the IT cars... but then again, I'm still (always) learning.

I run 215 BFGs but on tarmac I swap up to big meats, 285s, so that could explain the need for more spring rate. I will probably try to stuff 315s under there next year if I can find help with rims of the proper size and offset. I also for the first time this year upgraded to bigger sway bars front and rear.

The A6/R6 debate rages on for sure. But, one interesting thing I read was that in a 15-20 minute race, the A6 will allow you to get out front of all those on R6 and build a bit of a cushion, so that when they start to go off, the other guys will be too far back to catch up. I've never done wheel to wheel, so I'm not sure what the "but....." are with that theory.

Dave

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Gravity Fed
what about a Mazda 2, Spec B?

Why would you want him to spend over $20k to have the slowest car on the track?

Ben stop qoute my favorite movie On second thought it does go well with the current idea's flaoting around here about RA.

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Brent Dacres
Cincinnati,Oh

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phlat65
How about this RA, let me opt out of the "Media" package at a RA National/Regional. Why the fuck should I subsidise those pointy enders.

Because they're wieners! No winner, wiNNERZ! They've come to expect it. They have a semi trucks and you don't. They have a semi and a couple of motorhomes, they're cooler than you..Just read Beeg Fucking Plan Jr, there's millions to be made, millions "If only we can find a media outlet to sell the content to...
Makes me thing pot should be illegal...

And if it ain't that the child is a stoner par excellence , then it's even worse situation.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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Wannabe
I said it before, I'll say it again. Ticker: VHC

Things are only getting started.

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/VHC/key-developments

This isn't the solution but maybe it can help some through the down time.

Oh nooS!!! Just checked in on my life savings!

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Owner, Driver, Head Mechanic, and Janitor at Tower City Race Team, headquartered near L'Anse. Michigan.
Driver / CoDriver in Rally America, NASARallySport, ARA, AMS, UPMDA, Champ Off Road

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Dante

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Wannabe
I said it before, I'll say it again. Ticker: VHC

Things are only getting started.

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/VHC/key-developments

This isn't the solution but maybe it can help some through the down time.

Oh nooS!!! Just checked in on my life savings!

Oh I see you that and raise you
http://www.courts.state.me.us/opinions_orders/bcd/CV%20Orders/CV-09-25/CV-09-25%20Decision%20and%20Order%20%28Motion%20to%20Dismiss%29%201.4.10.pdf

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Wow, that looks messy.

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.