So what's going on with the RA negotiations?

Definitely not 7 events or at least the same 7 events. Prices will go up. That's all I've heard.

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shiza
Definitely not 7 events or at least the same 7 events. Prices will go up. That's all I've heard.

Have prices (entry fees) EVER gone down?? A serious question...Have they EVER?

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www.nismostuff.blogspot.com

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spalind

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shiza
Definitely not 7 events or at least the same 7 events. Prices will go up. That's all I've heard.

Have prices (entry fees) EVER gone down?? A serious question...Have they EVER?

It could be considered that the cost was being subsidized. Raising prices could be considered a market correction.

---

It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL

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spalind

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shiza
Definitely not 7 events or at least the same 7 events. Prices will go up. That's all I've heard.

Have prices (entry fees) EVER gone down?? A serious question...Have they EVER?

Depends what you mean by "event".

Last year Ojibwe Forests Rally ran as a national event (2008 I think) the regional entry fee was around $900 if I remember correctly. The past few regional standalone events they've held, the entry fees have been between $500 and $700. But, you don't get all of the extras that come with a national event.

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johnhuebbe
But, you don't get all of the extras that come with a national event.

Like what? This year had notes, had comparitive stage mileage, had a great catered afterparty, they had the merch booths. Besides SRTUSA not being there, it felt like a National event.

Even had an OFFicial Event funded recap video produced! Only thing missing was silly trophies and champagne.

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Owner, Driver, Head Mechanic, and Janitor at Tower City Race Team, headquartered near L'Anse. Michigan.
Driver / CoDriver in Rally America, NASARallySport, ARA, AMS, UPMDA, Champ Off Road

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Having not been to a RA national since about 2005, what are the current traits of a "national" event?

More banners?
Subaru VIPs?
Mandatory product use by certain manufacturers and vendors?
Champagne spray?
TV?
Online media?
Restricted media access by non-accredited folks?

I ask as I'm genuinely interested in what "the show" has that the rest of us don't see regularly.

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EricW
Having not been to a RA national since about 2005, what are the current traits of a "national" event?

. . .

I ask as I'm genuinely interested in what "the show" has that the rest of us don't see regularly.

Big rigs. Lots of flat brimmers. Lots of self-importance. That's about it.

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

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EricW
Having not been to a RA national since about 2005, what are the current traits of a "national" event?

More banners?
Subaru VIPs?
Mandatory product use by certain manufacturers and vendors?
Champagne spray?
TV?
Online media?
Restricted media access by non-accredited folks?

I ask as I'm genuinely interested in what "the show" has that the rest of us don't see regularly.

I believe there is a "media room" after the event where the top three drivers are available for a brief interview. At least there was at NEFR 3 years ago when I covered it...though if Ananda didn't like your line of questioning, the time you were given to ask questions was quite limited and you were given dirty looks by all of the "media" on hand...

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www.nismostuff.blogspot.com

Ok, here's a non-exhaustive list of "what you get" with a RA national. No doubt some will dispute some of these or feel they are not important to them. To each their own- I'm just trying to account for the extra cost of an RA national event. Certainly, other events have these things- but they do come at a cost. For example, you can certainly put together a great spectator guide or buy your own scoring equipment- but those things are not free.

"What you get":
- Spectator guides
- Scoring equipment
- Same-day scoring
- Some provided scoring crew
- Online registration and onsite registrar
- Stewards (I think RA pays for 2 of the 3?)
- Some promotion in social and "real" media
- Filmed coverage and interviews
- Contingency sponsors
- Consistent technical inspection via onsite national tech guy
- Onsite management assistance (this is helpful with the bigger teams)
- Podium celebration w/ champagne and photo backdrop
- RA assumes some risk in printing of Jemba notes
- Tracking of national championship scoring and points
- Use of Speed Factor system
- Management of media

- The above things attract bigger teams due to quality and consistency of competition. Those teams (and the above) also can help attract event sponsors that help make ends meet.

Again- some will look at the above list and say "My event has that!" - I'm looking at you, Anders - because you have a reputation for putting together fantastic rallies - But, those things were done with volunteer time and even if the event didn't pay cash for them, they weren't free.

In my opinion, it was worth it to put together a RA national event in the past. However, as someone else pointed out- If the costs were subsidized (and they were), then they may go up. Is it worth it then? Hard to answer. Not worth it if an event stands to lose money.

For full disclosure: I am an RA proponent. I'm also a NASA proponent. I did Rally Idaho (neither) and loved it. I'm a rally proponent. We have some great organizers and will continue to have great rallies in the future one way or the other.

Doug



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2012 09:53AM by Doug Heredos.

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Vorpal_Rally
It could be considered that the cost was being subsidized. Raising prices could be considered a market correction.

Could be, could be, could be. Come on, Lee, I'm more interested if YOU think that it IS a market correction, than what an anonymous third party might conjecture. So tell us what you think.

For MYSELF, I find the idea of "oh, it was subsidized before, so now it's just being corrected to the actual and fair price" absolutely nonsensical. What is my basis for this? Well, it's because it assumes all the wrong things about "price" and "value". Here's an example:

Option A - You can buy a Honda Civic for $16,000. Lots of people do value these cars at $16,000, since they buy them at that price all day long.

Option B - Let's imagine that you had a local Honda dealer order each and every part, all the way down to the shell, and assemble it in their service bay, and then sell it to you. And let's imagine that the cost in parts and labor and some profit ended up being, oh, $40,000.

The end result is the same: a Honda Civic with all new parts. (Let's not nit pick, it's an analogy.) Would anyone REALLY say, "Ok, I know it was $16,000 before, but it's $40,000 now. Before, we were getting the assembly subsidized by the factory, but $40,000 is the TRUE price, so we should be happy to pay that." The falicy therein is that the customer doesn't care about the supplier's cost. The only issue is "what value does this have to me at this price point?" At $40,000 a Honda Civic does not deliver sufficent value. Any sane person would walk across the street and buy the $16,000 Honda Civic. Sure, a couple people would say "Hey, for the extra $24,000 I get to have my car hand assembled by people I can talk to." For ME that's not an extra that's worth $24,000.

A different scenario is if suddenly all the metal inside the earth evaporated, making producing cars much more expensive for ALL suppliers. Now, the factory price goes up to $40,000. There is no A and B option. Then the idea of a temporarily subsidized price would be accurate in that case, and the value proposition by the customer would have to change. But rally is not in the scenario where there is no A and B option.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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Anders Green

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Vorpal_Rally
It could be considered that the cost was being subsidized. Raising prices could be considered a market correction.

Could be, could be, could be.

blah blah blah

Anders

No more coffee for you.

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

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wvonkessler
No more coffee for you.

HA! Actually, I did start the morning with a 5 Hour Energy. So y'all got another four hours of this comin....

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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Anders Green

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Vorpal_Rally
It could be considered that the cost was being subsidized. Raising prices could be considered a market correction.

Could be, could be, could be. Come on, Lee, I'm more interested if YOU think that it IS a market correction, than what an anonymous third party might conjecture. So tell us what you think.

For MYSELF, I find the idea of "oh, it was subsidized before, so now it's just being corrected to the actual and fair price" absolutely nonsensical. What is my basis for this? Well, it's because it assumes all the wrong things about "price" and "value". Here's an example:

Option A - You can buy a Honda Civic for $16,000. Lots of people do value these cars at $16,000, since they buy them at that price all day long.

Option B - Let's imagine that you had a local Honda dealer order each and every part, all the way down to the shell, and assemble it in their service bay, and then sell it to you. And let's imagine that the cost in parts and labor and some profit ended up being, oh, $40,000.

The end result is the same: a Honda Civic with all new parts. (Let's not nit pick, it's an analogy.) Would anyone REALLY say, "Ok, I know it was $16,000 before, but it's $40,000 now. Before, we were getting the assembly subsidized by the factory, but $40,000 is the TRUE price, so we should be happy to pay that." The falicy therein is that the customer doesn't care about the supplier's cost. The only issue is "what value does this have to me at this price point?" At $40,000 a Honda Civic does not deliver sufficent value. Any sane person would walk across the street and buy the $16,000 Honda Civic. Sure, a couple people would say "Hey, for the extra $24,000 I get to have my car hand assembled by people I can talk to." For ME that's not an extra that's worth $24,000.

A different scenario is if suddenly all the metal inside the earth evaporated, making producing cars much more expensive for ALL suppliers. Now, the factory price goes up to $40,000. There is no A and B option. Then the idea of a temporarily subsidized price would be accurate in that case, and the value proposition by the customer would have to change. But rally is not in the scenario where there is no A and B option.

Anders

Using the technical definition of "market correction" no, it is not. I was wrong in using that term.

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It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL

Now you made me go look up the technical definition of "market correction".

I'm still interested in what you think, though. If not "market correction", then ???

It's all just philosophy, since I don't think anyone is crossing the street to go visit dealer A.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.