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tipo158

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shiza
Sure all the stuff already mentioned is important but...what about them moving dates pretty much on top of Idaho? Seems to me like a crap move that will negatively affect BOTH events. I know they didn't mention to the Idaho Rally Group they were planning those dates. Two regionals 2 weeks apart is too close for most regional level teams I would think.

Why did Idaho move from July into the middle of a historically crowded month for PNW rallies this year? It moved right on top of when Mtn. Trials would have run if there hadn't been organizational issues in BC.

During my first year of rally, my driver and I did 4 events in 5 weeks (19 May, 24-25 May, 8 Jun, 15-16 Jun) and we were a no-budget operation. The events were in BC, AB and WA.

alan

When Idaho moved from June to July the only other event nearby in June was NNV. I don't think anyone thought about Mtn Trials. From what I understand the Idaho organizers talked with the NNV people and worked out a deal to switch dates.

4 events in 5 weeks is impressive but how many teams these days will be able to pull that off? How many PNW teams did Mt. Hood instead of PFR this year? The dates were posted long in advance why didn't more NW teams do PFR, which, from what I understand is an awesome rally?

Also what are the chances teams won't do Idaho to "save the car" for Olympus? I'll be honest my car should have been ready for OTR this year but I had no intentions of doing it because I didn't want to miss Idaho. Turns out the motor I got was bad so I missed both. I sincerely hope I'm proved wrong but I think the entries will not be what both events deserve due to the close dates.

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john vanlandingham

Not an area I'd like to defend.

This is my point. RA has nothing to loose as they are already starting to lose rallies, entrants, and therefore revenue.

I'm not implying that a lawsuit would be justfied... but do you want to have a lawsuit? Can you afford it? If they have nothing less to lose (and they're already hundreds of thousands of dollars in the hole), the cost of a lawsuit when you're up against the ropes isn't an option - it becomes mandatory.

What's the saying? Don't poke a wounded bear?

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EricW

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john vanlandingham

Not an area I'd like to defend.

This is my point. RA has nothing to loose as they are already starting to lose rallies, entrants, and therefore revenue.

I'm not implying that a lawsuit would be justfied... but do you want to have a lawsuit? Can you afford it? If they have nothing less to lose (and they're already hundreds of thousands of dollars in the hole), the cost of a lawsuit when you're up against the ropes isn't an option - it becomes mandatory.

What's the saying? Don't poke a wounded bear?

Some Crazy Car Ass-type could counter-sue!

Then agree to drop suits for a dropped suit..

Or since we're slingin literary references : First kill all the lawyers.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Back in the day...we had RallyWeek NW and Nor'wester and Olympus were one week apart. Both were Nationals because that is all we had. Buffum,Millen,Light,Henderson all were here for the events. I missed Norwester '83 because the car wasn't quite finished. It snowed that weekend. Next weekend was Olympus and I made that. Mid 80s on temp. Gotta love Washington. Two different organizations put on the events also, different roads Shelton the first event and Capital Forest the 2nd event and it worked and was a blast. Manly men days.

Olympus has to avoid the rainy season of spring and the fire danger of July. The date wasn't picked with any ill thoughts or nose thumbing of Idaho.

I like the date. Makes it very feasible to make one west coast tow for two events thus reducing cost per stage mile. Now to find a three car wedge to borrow so we can haul the Merkur, Dave's BMW and Scott's Subaru out for all three. Of course, Pikes Peak might be an issue for Dave since I think it's also the same weekend as Olympus. So maybe we jsut need a two car flat bed. And about 1000 hours of work and millions of dollars in parts to get the Merkur back together. Wonder with Pikes Peak being so busy if I could steal Dave's BMW. Shit, if it was an RA event he'd never know since there would definitely be no photo or video evidence.

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Grant Hughes

Well, it looks like I'm in a position to clear up a few things.

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aj_johnson
So is there any plans for olumpus to be included in any series? CRS?.....

Olympus has not approached the CRS nor has the CRS approached Olympus for inclusion onto the CRS calendar. I suppose it's possible it could happen, but there's
a process that the CRS Board goes through to accept an event, and that discussion takes into account a number of factors including distance from the CRS's core regions and the date of the event. In this case, the CRS would probably not allow Olympus to be on its calendar as it is too close in time to another event which already has a spot.

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tipo158
Why did Idaho move from July into the middle of a historically crowded month for PNW rallies this year? It moved right on top of when Mtn. Trials would have run if there hadn't been organizational issues in BC.

The Idaho organizer and the NNV organizers consulted in 2011 and swapped dates. That happened last year, not this year, and if I recall correctly Mtn Trials had already been cancelled for the year at that point and no one knew if it was going to run again. Idaho has now been in that spot and successfully executed for several years, so if there were any kind of arbitration I suspect Mtn Trials oranizers would find they've lost any claim to the the date.

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various
...blah blah blah copyright blah blah blah

I don't know why Anders and Eric are pissing in someone else's lemonaide (well, I do, but I'm not going to go into it here), but they're both confusing copyright law and patent law. Olympus can surely use someone else's rulebook. The rules aren't patented or anything (and I don't think they're patentable. Maybe as a process patent, but even that's not really applicable). What they can't do is reprint the rules, or make changes to them and publish them as their own.

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john vanlandingham
If you mean copyright...did RA draft from a clean sheet of paper 100% of the rules---or did they revise somebody elses'??

I'm pretty sure that getting rights to republish/modify/etc the SCCA's rulebook was part of the SCCA->RA handoff.

Oddly enough, it could be argued that NRS's rulebook is in violation of copyright law. Large chunks of it have been rewritten, but it was initially derived from other groups' rulebooks with large sections directly copied.

---

Self-righteous douche canoe

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hoche
Oddly enough, it could be argued that NRS's rulebook is in violation of copyright law. Large chunks of it have been rewritten, but it was initially derived from other groups' rulebooks with large sections directly copied.

But with permission of the copyright holders. I know. I wrote the initial set with the blessing of Motorsports NZ and CARS.

Their contribution was attributed inside the front page of the rule set.

On another point, competition is good and helps control costs.

Wilson

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

Did either NRS or RA get official rights or permission to use FIA 253 as a template for cages?

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hoche
Oddly enough, it could be argued that NRS's rulebook is in violation of copyright law. Large chunks of it have been rewritten, but it was initially derived from other groups' rulebooks with large sections directly copied.

Yeah, you could argue that. It would be an arguement you would lose, but you could argue it.

The permissions and credit Wilson mentions are on page two, if one bothers to read that far. They've been there for about a decade.

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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EricW

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john vanlandingham

Not an area I'd like to defend.

This is my point. RA has nothing to loose as they are already starting to lose rallies, entrants, and therefore revenue.

I'm not implying that a lawsuit would be justfied... but do you want to have a lawsuit? Can you afford it? If they have nothing less to lose (and they're already hundreds of thousands of dollars in the hole), the cost of a lawsuit when you're up against the ropes isn't an option - it becomes mandatory.

What's the saying? Don't poke a wounded bear?

what lawyer will take them on knowing that RA doesn't pay their bills? I doubt it's a strong enough draw for them to take that risk

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hoche
Well, it looks like I'm in a position to clear up a few things.

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aj_johnson
So is there any plans for olumpus to be included in any series? CRS?.....

Olympus has not approached the CRS nor has the CRS approached Olympus for inclusion onto the CRS calendar. I suppose it's possible it could happen, but there's
a process that the CRS Board goes through to accept an event, and that discussion takes into account a number of factors including distance from the CRS's core regions and the date of the event. In this case, the CRS would probably not allow Olympus to be on its calendar as it is too close in time to another event which already has a spot.

Gotcha... I do wonder why more events don't involve themselves in multiple regional battles. It's asking a bit much in the communication dept but I do wonder.

Grant- Idaho is currently a CRS event. Hence the question as geographical distance would be fairly easy to relate to

Much of the Olympus story is just now unfolding and being written. Not long ago it was part of the RA National Championship. It is part of the PNWRC and possibly part of the Cascadia Cup. I originally included Idaho in the PNWRC when Jens was Chairman. I think it still is part of our championship. I don't think Olympus should be involved in CRS. The distance is too far for oe thing. We have a large rally population here and I hope entries will take care of themselves. With the high expense of travel and low numbers of people doing it, having an event that just counts for a great time might be desireable.

If you guys can give me an entry fee more inline with a CARS national, and a *smidge* less dust, I'll be there.

Admittingly enough, the whole USAC thing definitely seems a "sideways" movement, but time will tell. Obviously, nothing changes to the competitors (in regards to the event itself) so who cares?

Oh, and should we make another thread placing bets on when RA implodes? I think we should do wagers in bottles of beer.

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12xalt

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EricW

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john vanlandingham

Not an area I'd like to defend.

This is my point. RA has nothing to loose as they are already starting to lose rallies, entrants, and therefore revenue.

I'm not implying that a lawsuit would be justfied... but do you want to have a lawsuit? Can you afford it? If they have nothing less to lose (and they're already hundreds of thousands of dollars in the hole), the cost of a lawsuit when you're up against the ropes isn't an option - it becomes mandatory.

What's the saying? Don't poke a wounded bear?

what lawyer will take them on knowing that RA doesn't pay their bills? I doubt it's a strong enough draw for them to take that risk

That's it, be a Negative Nellie, you want stagnation? Din't ya read Foggy Jr's Facebook comments..
IF ONLY he can find a buyer from the amazing Videos he know he can make there'll be dump truck loads of bundled 100s..



Any sharp lawyer would jump on a chance to get a cut of that kind of action. Foggy Inc Mutli-Media Empire can offer shares in lieu of payment

Now if:

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"Man. That's a lot of money. It only takes 100 bundles of $100 bills to make a million dollars. If these 10,050 bundles were all $100s, This stack would be worth $100,500,000!"

What lawyer wouldn't jump in wif both feets?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2012 12:21AM by john vanlandingham.

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HiTempguy
If you guys can give me an entry fee more inline with a CARS national, and a *smidge* less dust, I'll be there.

Admittingly enough, the whole USAC thing definitely seems a "sideways" movement, but time will tell. Obviously, nothing changes to the competitors (in regards to the event itself) so who cares?

Oh, and should we make another thread placing bets on when RA implodes? I think we should do wagers in bottles of beer.

And what would that number be??? As to the dust, I'll gladly pee in front of your car at stage start...

Seems like some sort of a news black out for RA currently. No one is talking or bitching.