First of all, hello everyone. I am new to the forum, and relatively new to rally. I have been competing in my local club's Rallycross events with a shared car for the last year and am looking to step it up and build something for stage rallys. I'm very excited about this build and hope to pick some brains about what you guys have had success with in the past.

I have been building Volvos for street/autocross for a few years now, but dirt setups have me a bit perplexed and would love some help so that this new build doesn't get started off on the wrong foot. The last car we ran was a 98 S70 T5, but after blowing the motor with an unfortunate overboosting incident, and not being able to find a suitable replacement motor, we decided to find a more robust chassis and start over.

I managed to get an 87 Volvo 760 turbo sedan for $300 from a friend who was moving and didn't have the time to deal with it. The car has 360,000km, but has been well maintained and the sheetmetal is in great shape for it's age. The motor has the usual oil leaks, the Nivomats are toast, the turbo has a bit of play, the flame trap is full of gunk, and the car is an auto, but that's all stuff that we can address over the next little while as we get it to 'stage 0'. We gave it a shakedown by running in an event about 12H after buying it. The car did suprisingly well, but it because painfully obvious that the suspension needs to be addressed immediately. This is where I need the most help.

Joe and I are on a tight budget since we also have our own street projects on the go and are taking our time to build the car. Luckily that means there are 2 other RWD Volvos donating parts to this car as well as a bit of a stockpile from previous projects. I wouldn't expect to see it caged and on a stage for another year or two, but we want to start by replacing any maintenance parts with stuff that would hold up better off road.

Our immediate issue is the rear suspension. The car luckily was one of the last years before the 760 went IRS, so what I have is just a tarted up 740 with a straight axle out back. The car has the telltale rear squat of dead Nivomats. We would like to do a coilover setup on all 4 corners, but that is going to have to wait another year or so until the funds are there. From what I've read on various forums, but common path seems to be swaping in some wagon or overload springs out back, go with Diesel or 6cyl springs up front. We would also be adding some KYB's at the same time. The idea being that you end up with a stiffer spring and a bit more ground clearance. Are more ground clearance and stiffer springs things we want? Obviously, we need to address the rear and at the very least, get it to a stock/non-nivomat steup, but would raising it beyond stock cause some handling issues?

I realize that these are some basic questions, and likely come up often. I tried to look around a bit on here, but couldn't find the answers I was looking for. All of the local guys are driving WRX's and aren't much help with RWD setups. Any input or being pointed in the right direction would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
-Matt



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2012 09:58AM by Eakin.

well youve come to the right place. Stay tuned for volvo info im sure

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
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Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

Perfect! Most people look at me like I'm crazy for not buying a WRX or Evo. I had a feeling that I was in the right place.

I should add that, I'm also interested in hearing about any 700/900 series tips, weak points, points of interest, etc. For example, I know that the rear subframes tend to have issues, but are people gusseting them, or going with something like this?
http://www.kaplhenke.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=34

Also, just to keep the mood light, I figured I'd share some pics from the car's maiden voyage:

Nice sideways action can be had with even the hideously deformed 747 K-Cars so if you can stand the looks then we can stand the looks..

Note, the most consistently highest placing 2wd driver in the last 12-14 years was Carl Jardevall in a 740 turbo... usually around 4th-5th Overall when there were 2 Higginses and a Lovell and another Blue Subie.
The potential is there.

Note as well his problems, when he had them, were all related to the rear axle and its whacky one side morphodite "link" contraption.

If you want to solve the problems, you will have to do some welding, but its very easy welding and there are clear pathways...

And the real solutions are somewhere here, not where a guy who claims to be an expert could set up is car so ridiculously wrong he just about rolled the car at about 35 km/hr in a perfectly smooth parking lot.

Think of the car as a big Escort...and build it that way..


More later, I have to get me little girls to school...

Tell us more--what resources for working on the car you have or have access to. Welding? (better!)

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I see nothing wrong with these plans!

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

Thanks for the encouragement everyone! Joe (co-owner) and I are pretty stoked about building something that looks like the driver should be wearing a pin-stripped dress shirt with a while collar, suspenders, and trading stocks on a DynaTAC.

The car is damn ugly, and I sort of love that about it. After that one session, the local club has been using pics of it getting sideways for all of their rallycross advertisements. It definately gets some attention.

Things are starting to some along. The rear suspension is being swapped out to wagon springs and some KYBs for now. Should get that tackled next week along with some Bilsteins up front and stock springs until I can find something beefier locally. I am hoping to go with some of John's coilovers next year, so this is more of a stop-gap for now.

Speaking of John, thanks for the tips. I did some research on the Jardevall car and that's essentially where we want to end up. Obviously, nethier of us are anywhere near the driver he is....but his car prep wasn't too crazy, so it's an easy template to use. ~250HP on a redblock is about where I wanted to by anyhow and fairly easy to achieve. An A cam or aftermartket VX/IPD, my 16t, a boost controller and a bit of tuning should get me pretty close to there. Then I need to get the chassis to where it wants to stay out of the trees and ditches.

Personally, I am not a welder, but I have some friends who can help me out there. I am anticipating things like boxing in control arms, stitch welding the body, caging (obviously), and some other re-inforcing. Mostly, I was trying to sort out the trouble areas from other peoples builds and focus there first. We'll still be running the car in rallycross while we build it, so we should be able to sort out a few of the issues before we get too deep, but it's always nice to know whats weak and address it before you get left stranded. Between here and Turbobricks, it seems like that strange rear x-member/trailing arm/axle mount monstrosity is the thing to address first. After that is likely the wiring. I'm starting to see the typical late-80's Volvo wiring starting to degrade under the hood. No running issues yet though. We do have a 94 940 lined up with 200,000km on it. The floor is rotten, but the running gear is good and it's a LH2.4 donor with a very healthy B230FT L block.

Resource wise, I have garage, a couple of local volvo indie mechanics that are excited about the project (hoping for some sympathetic pricing on used parts), friends that weld, a friend who runs a machine shop, and I am picking up that 940 I just mentioned this weekend for spare parts.

The local rally scene is small, but it's a tight group. There is a lot of enthusiasm, but not too many entries. I have a few people that are helping me out with a lot of the logistical and rulebook related issues. I am likely just going to stay regional with this car since:
a) I don't have time to travel across the country to compete
b) I don't have the skills to compete on a national level
c) I need an exception to run a turbo with >2.0L motor
d) I'm am already making a big leap out of my comfort level with this build



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2012 10:06PM by Eakin.

Quote
fiasco
I see nothing wrong with these plans!

Joe's (co-owner of the 760) 240 is almost identical to that one in the video. We'll have to try and re-create some of those shots. We almost did some of that last year with the S70








And then the reality of broken suspension bits kicks in:

Wait. HJoe has a 240 and you're contemplating building a 7 series...

You've been on Turbobricks tooooooooooooooooo much..
Seriously be extremely careful over there, there is a huge amount of half truths , mis-information and very little judgement about anything aside from moar boostz...and definately nobody there has a clue how to even THINK about suspension.
It is all
"My buddy said he liked _______ and that's good enough for me"

Which soon turns to "Your (sp) a know-it-all" which becaomes "youre an asshole, I don't care what you say i want 600 lbs springs and its comfortable.."

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Yep, fair point about Turbobricks, I take everything on there with a grain of salt. It's essentially just a refference site for me. I hardly post on there since I don't really care to get in to debates with people 10-15 years younger than me about how my car should look. Essentially that's why I am asking about the suspension here instead of there. I was given some very bad advice regarding my K-Jet system on my car that I had just bought...luckily I have an indie mechanic in the area that used to race a K-Jet car and he set me straight before I did something stupid. Anyhow, crisis was avoided and I have a very healthy and reliable car now.

I probably shouldn't tell you this, because I think I see where the conversation is going to detour to, but Joe and I both have 240's. Mine is a 242t that will never see snow or gravel again in it's life, that's my baby. Joe's 244 is a survivor car as well and way too nice to start cutting up.....it's also his G/F's weekend car, and she'd likely castrate him if anything happened to it. So building with either of those cars is out of the question.

I am not opposed to building a 240, I just can't find one. What you need to realize is that I'm in the rust belt and most 240's didn't last out here. The assebly line was about 10 minutes from my place, so there are a lot of people with fond memories of them in town, but very few suriviors. The ones that made it are all overpriced, sentimental pieces now. Overpriced as in ~$10,000 for cars with 200,000-300,000km on them.

We actually comtemplated buying the 245 that was run in Targa Newfoundland this year, but weren't sure if we wanted to throw a wagon around in the woods....as funny as that would be. Also, buying someone else's megasquirt mess is a bit terrifying, especially since it was a megasquirt issues that caused their DNF.

700/900 series cars are still cheap out here, which is why we decided to go that route instead of the 240. I figured that they're essentially the same car underneath with the exception of a slightly longer wheelbase and the previously mentioned rear suspension link. Am I totally out to lunch on that assumption? Most of my time has been spent under 240's and P80 cars, so my experience is limited with the 700/900 chassis. A redblock, is a redblock though, so the motor is the easy part for us.

We didn't spend much on the 760, and are just as happy to run it in to the ground in rallycross if it is really that bad of a platform. That's going to be it's fate for the next year or so anyhow. I can't see us doing much this year beyond catching up on the maintenance, converting to a manual (M46/47/T5...no clue yet), putting better seats in it, and freshening up the suspension.

Basically, the car has a year to prove itself worthy. If we're still happy with it at the end of the season, we'll look at carrying on with the build.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2012 06:57AM by Eakin.

Just my experience with our 85 760 if you are going to swap the trans anyways I wouldn't bother with the m46 or 47. I have done one drift event and one rallycross with ours and broke the trans both times. But I am cursed with transmissions you might have better luck.

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Eakin
The local rally scene is small, but it's a tight group. There is a lot of enthusiasm, but not too many entries

Don't sell us short, Matt! We've gone from 2 local region caged rally cars to 8 in 3 years after not having any rally events for almost two decades! 9 once you get some tube in that bad boy! I'd say we've got a lot of entries and growing!

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Atlantic Canadian Region Rallysport: http://www.rallyeast.ca - Ledwidge Lookoff Rally http://www.lookoffrally.com
2000 Impreza 2.5RS CARS P4WD (Sponsored by Rally-Tech, Great North Performance)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2012 03:31PM by OjNK.

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Cody Crane
Just my experience with our 85 760 if you are going to swap the trans anyways I wouldn't bother with the m46 or 47. I have done one drift event and one rallycross with ours and broke the trans both times. But I am cursed with transmissions you might have better luck.

At the risk of sounding like a JurboDicker (which I am, unfortunately), maybe try a T5?

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Something about something....dirt.

A T5 is the plan for our car

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OjNK

Quote
Eakin
The local rally scene is small, but it's a tight group. There is a lot of enthusiasm, but not too many entries

Don't sell us short, Matt! We've gone from 2 local region caged rally cars to 8 in 3 years after not having any rally events for almost two decades! 9 once you get some tube in that bad boy! I'd say we've got a lot of entries and growing!

Hey Gord, that was meant as a compliment, not a dig. I wouldn't even be considering a build if it wasn't for your's and Ian's hospitality. You guys are very helpful and accomodating with everything. I can't wait to add to the local numbers. Just trying to make sure that I have the right car to do it with.

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Houdini91

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Cody Crane
Just my experience with our 85 760 if you are going to swap the trans anyways I wouldn't bother with the m46 or 47. I have done one drift event and one rallycross with ours and broke the trans both times. But I am cursed with transmissions you might have better luck.

At the risk of sounding like a JurboDicker (which I am, unfortunately), maybe try a T5?

Cody, love the car! What were you breaking in the trannys? I know that 3rd gear tends to get shredded up when you start adding power, but so far the M46 in my 242 has held up to me running a conservative 12psi through it.....knock on wood. I'd also love to hear of any other chassis or reliability problems that you guys have encoutnered if you don't mind sharing.

My plans for this year are to put T5 in my 242 first, and put either the hand-me-down M46 (won't bother with wiring the O/D) or M47 (getting a cheap/free unit from someone who needs to clean their garage) in to the 760 until I could find a second T5 for it as well. I figured that dirt would be more forgiving than ashphalt, so that order made sense for now, and there's also a spare if/when it shits the bed. A T5 is definitely the end goal for the 760 though.