I am looking at purchasing a 1982 4dr rabbit diesel and setting it up to rally with. He wants $1500 for the car and I'll post the picture links below. I have no clue what racing type I'd start with since I have no idea what rally types exist in Minnesota. I really have two questions to ask. What type or rally racing should I start out with? Would a mk1 be a good starting point for a rally car? I guess my worry is that this car will be a huge budget breaker since I can't find any parts for it. Is there even rally suspension offered for the car?


Just a little background. I have very little fabrication skills but would be willing to learn. I am half way through another project which is swapping a ls1 into my porsche 944. That car will be my road car that I take to autocross and HPDE. I'm not exactly a dunce when it comes to cars but clueless when it comes to racing. I have never actually raced a car before but I cannot wait to get my porsche finished and on a track. I know nothing about diesels or VW so I would love to do this project and learn.

http://images.craigslist.org/3F53pb3Nf5Ld5Kc5M1ccdfc213b53ab49167d.jpg
http://images.craigslist.org/3K53M73Na5Ld5Kf5F5ccd9d15ebd4329c1b30.jpg

im pretty sure this is in MN

http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?46749-1985-VW-GTI-G2-Rally-Car-for-sale

it will save you all the money. its usually cheaper to buy an already built car than start from scratch. especially if you are new to racing.

mk1's were fine when they still existed. when is the last time you saw one on the road much less in the junk yard. don't waste your time and money on this car. start with something that is newer or most plentiful. I would finish the current project before starting on a second.

---

-KTurner
Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel.

MKI Rabbit has been done in the past, but it's not ideal. MKII is a much better platform, although unfortunately even those are getting rare (especially in the upper midwest) these days.


I was just going to post the link to the car Chris did...it's a PERFECT starter car.

There's also a MKII rally car up in Duluth, if it hasn't been sold. But it's got a built engine and will be a bit more effort for a beginner.

In terms of rally...MN has one of the better programs. Nemadji Trails offers 2-3 short one day events that are perfect for low-budget first-timers.

And Ojibwe just got added back in to the National RA circus and offers a lot of great roads in August.

Plus, you're not too far from 100AW in Missouri or LSPR in UP Michigan.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2012 09:36AM by fliz.

Once again,,,watch the rust in the fllor pan and hidden areas of eastern cars.

I remember old diesel Rabbits being exceedingly slow, seems like the ehads would crack while sitting in the show room and that seems like a retail plus price.

As a beginner I would like to see a few of the same cars as mine entered. Tips, tricks, advice, spare parts are really invaluable in this sport.

Quote
bp944
I am looking at purchasing a 1982 4dr rabbit diesel and setting it up to rally with. He wants $1500 for the car

Buy the mk1 rabbit for $1500 and buy a Viton rubber line kit for it. If it needs it, spray paint iwth with Rustoleum.

Place on EBAY and tell everyone that it runs on veggie oil and bio diesel and gets 50mpg.

Double or triple your money for almost no work.....And use it to find a suitable rally shell instead.

---

____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

Put the crack pipe down and step away from the rabbit.

I second what Josh said.

If you can't afford to buy a new car you can't afford to build a rally car.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Quote
Rallymech
If you can't afford to buy a new car you can't afford to build a rally car.

I wouldn't go that far unless you meant newER car ...but I agree that you are better off in the long run getting a car there are parts for.

For a VW, I wouldn't go older than a Mk3. Lots of cheap ones around. Had their rust issues, too but a southern car should be fine. If you wanted a diesel for some reason, a Mk3 TDI would be about double that rabbit but I'd still recomend going with a gasser and if you wanted a diesel later, find an east coast car with a crap body for cheap and swap the motor into your mint southern shell. Even then, new OE Mk3 parts are almost gone, but should be plenty of used stuff in junkyards and there are a lot of aftermarket parts still available.

Since you are newer to all this...I'd vote rear wheel drive. Super cheap, easier to learn to work on, usable in the dirt, and certainly on tarmac. I think it would be a more versatile platform until you know what you want to do.

Tim.

Terrible terrible terrible idea. That car wouln't be suitable for an autocross, so why try to make it a rally car. Engine weak and terrible with no way to get even a little more power. Shell weak and probably rusty. Poor brakes. Poor everything.

Buy volvo and put in cage and rally. Or a Focus. Or a Civic. Then upgrade item by item as you have time and money. Start with minimum $10,000 to get on stage after base car, cage, seats, safety equipment, underbody protection, wheels, rally tires, tow rig/trailer borrowed or something... unless you can do the big stuff yourself (most can't).

Really, Robert is right though. There isn't a car out there that doesn't either require fantastic fab skills and the right tools and TIME, or a wallet full of $$. Whatever car you start with will end up costing you at least equal to a new car.

Quote
TronDD

Quote
Rallymech
If you can't afford to buy a new car you can't afford to build a rally car.

I wouldn't go that far unless you meant newER car ...but I agree that you are better off in the long run getting a car there are parts for.

For a VW, I wouldn't go older than a Mk3. Lots of cheap ones around. Had their rust issues, too but a southern car should be fine. If you wanted a diesel for some reason, a Mk3 TDI would be about double that rabbit but I'd still recomend going with a gasser and if you wanted a diesel later, find an east coast car with a crap body for cheap and swap the motor into your mint southern shell. Even then, new OE Mk3 parts are almost gone, but should be plenty of used stuff in junkyards and there are a lot of aftermarket parts still available.

Since you are newer to all this...I'd vote rear wheel drive. Super cheap, easier to learn to work on, usable in the dirt, and certainly on tarmac. I think it would be a more versatile platform until you know what you want to do.

Tim.

Plus Juan on the last bit.
BP whatever your name is---you're supposed to j
have somewhere in the sidebar or the signature a real name and real location because many of us feel funny talking to made up names like they're not really people---
the number one question to ask yourself in every step of the way in competition is "What advantage does this ______________ (car, part, procedure, action (driving technique), purchase have over ___________ (the alternate car, part, procedure, action)..

You have to think of that in advance of every choice because a choice today sets you on a path or road or "way" that leads you to somewhere....maybe happiness, maybe personal enlightenment, maybe ruin, or frustration.

(I am refraining from re-posting the Noble Eightfold Path but I'll link and mini-quote it:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path)

So, to advise you, and help you attain _________ (happiness, enlightenment, whatever) we have to ask you a lot of questions, simple questions but very much needed questions.

Why a Rare-bit?
Why a diesel?
By why I mean "what advantage does a Rare-bit have over __________?" and "what advantage does a diesel have over _____________?"

Using the simplest analytic tool---"compare and contrast" helps. It's not Rare-bit diesel because it's the only car, its a Rarebit diesel in competition on SS against other cars which--it is the nature of competition---you are supposed to beat, and beat by driving the SS quicker--shorter time---than the other cars/driver.

What is the goal you are seeking to attain?
>Fun? (listed number one because that is actually the best answer)
>Self-enlightenment (listed no2 because that is often the more lasting accomplishment if you stick with the endeavor)
>Fame and adulation of the teeming multitudes of spectators?
>Recognition of how brilliant you are because you managed to make a really poor car which is a painfully slow econobox go so fast? 0-60 in 19 seconds?
> a big lip-lock on your thobbing love muscle from the Trophy Girl?

In the compare and contrast I find it a useful aid for my pooor oooooold knocked about brain to write 2 columns and sketch in likely costs for car R (Rare-bit ) and car __________ (some alternate, but I know what I would do if I was starting clean.)

Then you will see in both the columns some "same costs" like cage, suspenders, seats, belts, plumbing (brakes and fuel), oil cooling, instruments (Odo, oil temp and pressure) and since they're the same in both (or multiple) columns (nobody said it was Car R vs just one other car) you can regard those as "cancelling out" each other cause those costs are the same no matter what.
THEN! then we can compare the variables. Car R will cost $xxx to do this, while car V will cost nothing (for example)...

Thats the basic "build or start costs". Then do a new chart "I get hooked and dive in for the next ________years" comparison..
Car R maybe OK to start with cause beating anything, like pure silly hoon-ifying in the snow or gravel is fun, but what happens when you decide to "get serious"...
In this chart put costs of doors, hoods , grills, fenders, racks, better clutches, better brakes, better gear ratios , correct final drives, LSD---no no not the kind that gives you insight and self awareness, the sort that lets both wheels bite and gives you speed and control---which gives you insight and self awareness... (damn just drop acid and drive stages springs up as a direct path....hmmmmm never mind forget that), and then the inevitable thing lurking in everybodys feverish brains: more power..what's that gonna cost for Car R vs _________?

Do these two charts and I betcha a whole nickel that you will being to have serious doubts as to the wiseness of looking at a Rarebit diesel or really any FWD platform....

Says the man who has only rallied a FWD car (ahhh but there were solid logical reasons for that, we're not discussing what I did back then, we're discussing what path you are setting out on.)

Seriously, once you've corrected your name and location thing make a stab at the 2 charts. We can help, and take some time now to re-read and actually spit out some answers to the shit posed above..

OK?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
frumby
Terrible terrible terrible idea. That car wouln't be suitable for an autocross, so why try to make it a rally car. Engine weak and terrible with no way to get even a little more power. Shell weak and probably rusty. Poor brakes. Poor everything.

Buy volvo and put in cage and rally. Or a Focus. Or a Civic. Then upgrade item by item as you have time and money. Start with minimum $10,000 to get on stage after base car, cage, seats, safety equipment, underbody protection, wheels, rally tires, tow rig/trailer borrowed or something... unless you can do the big stuff yourself (most can't).

Really, Robert is right though. There isn't a car out there that doesn't either require fantastic fab skills and the right tools and TIME, or a wallet full of $$. Whatever car you start with will end up costing you at least equal to a new car.

a Focus? You have any idea what the costs of the parts are to progressively upgrade a Focus? the variables?

Hell if we had any idea of where this guy is we could at least point him towards some car that CAN be easily progressively upgraded like this one:
http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?7,73443

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

*slowly sets down the crack pipe and backs away*

My Rationale:
I want to get into rally racing because it looks like a blast. I have just graduated college and was looking for a way to get into rallying for as cheaply as I can (what that number is, i still need to figure out). The diesel rabbit was just there so I was curious. I figured speed is not exactly the first on my list because I should actually learn how to handle a car first hence why the diesel didn't bother me at first. I also have a fondness for the older small rally cars (austin mini, etc). Honestly, I have no intentions on racing for the sake of competition. Competition would be fun but I will by no means be trying to win anything significant.

Okay, so my question now is about the MKII GTI for sale on specialstage.com. I probably could run with it for a year or two until I out grow it. What is the major disadvantage of FWD other than its not quite as fun? The "gunk" he says that was in the fuel tank, what would it take to clean out a tank? Would I have to replace the tank? If so, would it be practical to install a fuel cell? I would have to remove the lines and filters but that's not too big a deal.

-Chris, could you possibly point me in the direction of the MKII in duluth? I can't seem to find it.

How did you all get started in rally racing? I'm assuming I shouldn't just show up and start flogging my car around some race course. I'm guessing there's a better way to start. Rally cross?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2012 03:42PM by bp944.

Key parts of this guy's post:

Quote
bp944
I have very little fabrication skills but would be willing to learn.
I am half way through another project which is swapping a ls1 into my porsche 944. That car will be my road car that I take to autocross and HPDE.
clueless when it comes to racing. I have never actually raced a car before
I know nothing about diesels or VW

So, learning and active. -Good.
Already learning about a front engine, rwd car. -Good.
Interested in tarmac and dirt but never raced at all. -Your idea of what you want to persue may be completely different than what you think now, once you've tried things.
Knows nothing about VW or diesels. -So no real reason to get one other than there was something available at an attractive price. For this particular car, then, skip it.

Tim.

Depends on the gunk in the tank. If rust, you might need to replace the tank. You might be able to get away with coating the inside, too. POR-15 makes a product, for example.


Getting into rally:

I'm still getting into rally, so I have no end to the story yet, but I spectated an event. Went to a rally school (at the time, I didn't think an average Joe like me could ever actually race and this was to be my taste of it). Then I started volunteering as a crew member for a couple of teams. Got into rallyx in my daily driver. Saved up and bought a used rally car. Now I am just waiting for a nearby event that doesn't get canceled. Feeling out the new car at rallycrosses in the mean time.

And by the way, I have a rally car and that's it. No service truck, no trailer, no crew, not even a co-driver. I drive the rally car to rallyx events and back. 3 hours, in a race seat and harnesses with no radio (or heat, not recommended) on snow tires with gravel tires and a jack crammed in the back. I work on the car in the driveway, I have no shop. For a stage rally, I will borrow or rent a truck and trailer (maybe), and co-drivers can be found for any particular event.

I think I did ok in rally school, but I suck at rallycross. I am consistently last or maybe second to last if a newbie is there. That's me, though. I have no other racing experience, either. Rallycross is rather poor at giving you seat time. I need to branch out into hillclimbs and tarmac stuff to get more comfortable. Point is, you don't have to be competative, you don't have to win. I love driving. I do it for the fun.

The biggest thing to getting into rally, is just go for it. You don't *need* all the bells and whistles.

Tim.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2012 03:45PM by TronDD.

Quote
bp944
*slowly sets down the crack pipe and backs away*

Okay, so my question now is about the MKII GTI for sale on specialstage.com. The "gunk" he says that was in the fuel tank, what would it take to clean out a tank? Would I have to replace the tank? If so, would it be practical to install a fuel cell? I would have to remove the lines and filters but that's not too big a deal.

-Chris, could you possibly point me in the direction of the MKII in duluth? I can't seem to find it.

How did you all get started in rally racing? I'm assuming I shouldn't just show up and start flogging my car around some race course. I'm guessing there's a better way to start. Rally cross?

Oh OK Ben, is that really supposed to be Pettersson? or Petersen?

I have to ask a new question: what's the foucing on Golves all about?
personally I think there are some very very costly "variables' lurking just around the first corner with Golves.. Very chronic and expensive 'variables' for which there doesn't seem to be s 100% solid answer for.

You see that link I posted?

http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?7,73443

Solid reliable car which the guy did some very good results with, and from what we can see, are easy to drive, CHEAP, and limitless potential...which sounds way better than something with known chronic weak link which has caused bazzilions of DNFs for even low powered cars.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.