Cars good, idea on suspension improvement.

Quote
Gravity Fed
sometimes i miss my 325IS. Didnt like the steering very much, and was nose heavy feeling, but overall was enjoyable as a car.

Did they come with some looooooooooooooooooooooong 6 in 'em?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

indeed it did. too bad the 1.8 wasnt more like the M 4 cylinder

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
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Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

Eh, but it WAS. The S14 was based off the M10. Of course the M10 started life as a 1.6 in the 1600/02, and then went on to be used in that zwo oh oh zwo thing.

For an E30, the best driveability is probably the M42 late 318 if you like reving and momentum. The M20B27 probably is the most fun on short gear rations and grunt. For general ease of use and longevity, the M20B25 in Ferd and my E30s is the ticket.

I like the S14. I put one in a 1602 for a customer. We had the car at Pacific Raceways for a shake down. The motor just kept on pulling hard all the way to the rev limiter.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Thread with useful information ruined by Timmay.

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

Quote
Dazed_Driver
Whatever John. You form your own delusional opinions of me. And no, frankly I don't give a shit about "all the people you talk to" and what THEY think either. I'm semi convinced they're in your head, or just putting up with your shit for their own reasons.

Anyhow, good luck with your pitch. He's already interested. Its up to you to nail a payment plan and deposit that works for him to get him to say yes!

PISS OFF DUDE! John may have a bit of weirdness to him but there are nuggets of info in his posts. I'm sick of having to skip your shit!


Just a friendly reminder to the OP that stacked springs cut the spring rate in half!

Quote
Rallymech
I like the S14. I put one in a 1602 for a customer. We had the car at Pacific Raceways for a shake down. The motor just kept on pulling hard all the way to the rev limiter.

Yeah I was spikkin' wif one of the guys I did BMW suspenders for out en la Belle Province and he has one laying around so we're at the 'light pencil sketch in" stage of thinking about the ---whatever you call the 1800/1900/ 16v thing..
I tore one town just to have achance to poke at and measure a few thing, just in case somebody ever wanted to have some fun, and it looks good..
Nice strong looking crank, nice mainline in the block, nice pent-roof combustion chamber so det resistant and so we just have to do some searching for if there's any cam worth thinking about available..And that's the problem cause it seems everybody ignores the "little 16v thang" because BIGGER IS ALWAYS BETTER...

Except I like nimble handling cars and LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG
inline 6s usually create problems with the nimble bit..
See we figured, realitically who care what the "sane limit" is on a 2wd gravel and snow car...I say its 220-230 bhp but so what! Who even has bothered in the last 20 years? 1 or 2 guys maybe?
Hooey!

A safe and sane 190-200 with nice powerband would be a BIG advantage over most Grope 2 cars.

So now we search for good cams..( I fear this means UK or maybe Sweden)

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Ecentric Shafts for the S14's are readily availalbe in 272°, 284° and 292° variants ->http://www.turnermotorsport.com/image/engine/schrick_tech_2009_BMW_only.pdf

OR you could go with a 276° or 290° from MM -> http://www.metricmechanic.com/product-prices/engine-parts/camshaft-head-parts/

OR OR you could do a 320°/308° pair and a CAM box upgrade -> http://store.vacmotorsports.com/schrick---s14-camshafts-p1364.aspx

OR OR OR? You could see what the Finns and Swedes are running the Evo S14 motors over yonder.

Were you thinking something else for a "good cam" John? If so do inform.

Well that's the problem...There is a limitation to numbers in that the numbers don't tell maybe the most important thing: the shape of the cam.. Ya know?
You can have two cams with identical opening and closing points and same lift but one looks like:

a stylized extended tear drop, the other a slight flat oval...

Nobody reachable on the phone is going to do anything more than repeat the ad copy...

So were left to experience and my experience with ALL Germanski cam is they are always lame...road race or autobahn rev to the end of time not very brutal--in fact opening rates quite pussified..

This might be why for rally development VW, and Opel subcontracted engine development to Gunnar Forssberg i Södertälje and Janne Carneborn in Nacka ( South and East of Stockholm Sweden) respectively.

Shape of cam generates the shape of the power curve, and I push healthy power but always with emphasis on good strong "yank"...

Some info MIGHT be very hard to come by from "die üblichen Verdächtigen'' who are the spiritual and mental antithesis of rally clubbies.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2013 10:33AM by john vanlandingham.

Damn that cam on the left is steep. Doesn't look like it could physically work even with roller lifters.

I can't remember, are the measurments taken at the same degree on every cam or do they fluctuate based on actual start of lift, etc? I remember some controversy about that when comparing numbers on two cams. I suddenly recall that it's the degree where you hit 0.0x lift is the standard start point or something.

Tim.

Theoretically the standard for advertised duration is .01" lift or something, but there's a lot of manufacturers that play silly buggers with that. And it doesn't tell you much anyway, because the initial ramp off of the seat doesn't have much happening anyway. Duration measured @0.040" lift (or sometimes 0.050" for one cam maker I can think of for *some* of their cams) or 1mm or whatever tells you more but still not nearly as much as you'd like. You could have two cams with the same maximum lift, same advertised duration, even the same @0.040 duration, but one could have hit peak valve velocity and be slowing down already at that timing point, and another could be holding the velocity to closer to peak lift. The second one means a lot steeper acceleration over the nose that the springs have to contend with, but also lots more valve lift during the time it's open; area under the curve, toarks, bla bla bla. There's actually a lot of interesting shit that being able to throw computers at the valvetrain dynamics lets you do. Or, well, "you" if you have a cam grinder at your disposal.

Yeah John, got that, thus the were you looking for more than your standard off the shelf stuff that I listed as "easily" availalbe.

Here's something called a book, it has "drawings" and "equations" in it. The overleaf of the title page refers to the Western portion of Germany as FRG, so you know it's gotta be good.

Je ne comprend pas cette FRG.
Fawking Rotten Germans?
Fawning Religious Gratitude
Fruchtlose Rein Gewirr?

Aber BRD kan ich begreifen,

And no a theory book is not what we need. My job is not to become a camshaft designer....

This is where so many go astray... I build things, and 99.97845% of what we must build has been done, most of it many times, and most often there solutions we need are well established...

Our constant problem is to source things specific to what we need for gravel rally car....at an affordable price.
That's the problem..

And in this case a ca 2,0 16v n.a. rally motor..
there is already decades of experience in all the major gravel rally countries, and in some of them obsessive/compulsive syndrome is a normal part of most people's personality and those suckers tend to get things right (that's why the Allemani when they really need good motor development the go to Cosworth in England (as Opel, Mercedes and BMW all did for their nice heads on the XE, and the 2 sedan things in the 80s), or Enem or Forssberg in Sweden..

It's the affordable part where we stumble here as my guy in Quebec has had his Road to Damascus moment and knows now this is all for fun.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Obviously I know that it's the case, but I wonder why it's so damn hard to get decent bits; is it just that the requirements for even an NA 2L in rallying are so different than raodrace stuff, or do most companies just make shitty cams?

The important thing that I forgot to mention is that on the S14 with which I have experience, the power was nothing special until approximately 4500rpm. After 4500rpm the thing pulled like a fucking locomotive. It takes some balls to keep a rally car above 4500rpm.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.