Also courting other manufacturers too, it's a bit easier to do that with 2wd as more manufacturers have vehicles suitable.
Limitiing the outright cars to an age cutoff too means the factory teams don't have to worry about being beaten by a freak local with good road knowledge in a 30year old Datsun 1600 worth $100k

This year there are a few semi-factory teams out there, in Mazdas and Fords.

The more jaded competitors have seen it all before, and dislike the powers that be trying to make the sport more sponsor/spectactor friendly to the detriment of their view of "real" rallying.

100AW is the closest rally to me, but by the time I convert my car to G2 instead of G5 and pay the increased entry etc. I can haul to RWV......see you in West Virginia

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This one goes to 11!

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fliz

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johnhuebbe

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mke723
600 to 900 Thats a big jump in price, did they change anything to make it worth the Extra $$?

You didn't read my post. It is NOT a $300 jump in price.

Lesson in Marketing...the uninformed consumer only looks at one price.

600+20+180+50 = 600

Events should just put in the supps what the total increase (when counting notes/recce) is marginal. That way, nobody can act like they're getting some $300 price increase. And if someone's bitching about a $45 price increase, then rallying (or any form of motorsports) isn't for them.

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Millhouse118
100AW is the closest rally to me, but by the time I convert my car to G2 instead of G5 and pay the increased entry etc. I can haul to RWV......see you in West Virginia

Someone doesn't even bother to read the thread.

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Millhouse118
100AW is the closest rally to me, but by the time I convert my car to G2 instead of G5 and pay the increased entry etc. I can haul to RWV......see you in West Virginia

Don't give up hope. I heard there's a betting pool going for how many events before the Fogg clears an RamblyAmericar disappears..
I hear the betting is on 3 events, then

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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EricW
The resulting price increases were directly the result of decisions made by the organizers to allow those fees to be increased on them. Fees could have been flat (or gone down) if different choices were made by those same organizers.

That is a case of correlation proving causation. It is a logical fallacy. Eric, you, to my knowledge were not involved in negotiations with Rally America and it's organizers. Therefore, please , without details of what actually occured, don't imply we are somehow bad people and we don't care about our competitors.

---

It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL

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Millhouse118
100AW is the closest rally to me, but by the time I convert my car to G2 instead of G5 and pay the increased entry etc. I can haul to RWV......see you in West Virginia

Just how G5 is your G5? Before I bought the citation,I called JB Naday to see if they'd let a noob rally a fat old car with a 3.8 buick. He said yes and here we are.

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Vorpal_Rally

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EricW
The resulting price increases were directly the result of decisions made by the organizers to allow those fees to be increased on them. Fees could have been flat (or gone down) if different choices were made by those same organizers.

That is a case of correlation proving causation. It is a logical fallacy. Eric, you, to my knowledge were not involved in negotiations with Rally America and it's organizers. Therefore, please , without details of what actually occured, don't imply we are somehow bad people and we don't care about our competitors.

ok, Lee, how about this:
1) Did you have any choices?
2) Did you choose the least expensive option that would allow you to put on your rally?

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EricW
ok, Lee, how about this:
1) Did you have any choices?
2) Did you choose the least expensive option that would allow you to put on your rally?

1) Yes we had choices, but they were not as cut and dry as you'd like to think. Nothing ever is.
2) We chose what was best for the current situation (taking into account other events), timing, our event, and lots of other factors.

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bknblk2

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Millhouse118
100AW is the closest rally to me, but by the time I convert my car to G2 instead of G5 and pay the increased entry etc. I can haul to RWV......see you in West Virginia

Just how G5 is your G5? Before I bought the citation,I called JB Naday to see if they'd let a noob rally a fat old car with a 3.8 buick. He said yes and here we are.

To G5 for me, i already talked to JB and he said nope. I am pretty bummed, I was looking forward to 100AW but this just isnt the year i guess. I realize its my own fault, i misread the rule when purchasing the car. Just think the rule needs revamped. A open light car in my opinion will get you into a stickier situation than a G5. My car is a 90 GST Eclipse by the way, stock power-wise.

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This one goes to 11!

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johnhuebbe

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EricW
ok, Lee, how about this:
1) Did you have any choices?
2) Did you choose the least expensive option that would allow you to put on your rally?

1) Yes we had choices, but they were not as cut and dry as you'd like to think. Nothing ever is.
2) We chose what was best for the current situation (taking into account other events), timing, our event, and lots of other factors.

So, that's a polite way of saying:
1 - yes.
2 - No.

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2) Did you choose the least expensive option that would allow you to put on your rally?
2) We chose what was best for the current situation (taking into account other events), timing, our event, and lots of other factors.

So, that's a polite way of saying:
2 - No.[/quote]

In my experience, choosing the least expensive option is not always the best option. Eggs for example. I always try to buy eggs because I don't flinch at the $4-5 a dozen organic eggs as I know I can taste and see the difference. My wife always buys the $2 dozens because they are cheaper. I can tell the difference and while it's more than double the cost, it's still only 40 cents an egg and I'm saving a shit ton compared to getting the two egg plate at any breakfast place.

I can fully understand why Sno Drift, 100AW, STPR, NEFR, and LSPR would choose to stick with RA. I have no reservations saying that their entry numbers would drop by half if they had gone NRS. I know Rally Colorado was NOT able to exist without the pony show that Rally America brought. They could not obtain the local support to continue subsidizing the costs for the rally at a reduced level.
Olympus and Oregon Trail are in a unique circumstance in that they have a large and supportive competitor base at home and the National entries simply add some flavor. They can survive and thrive on a smaller regional scale.

---

Grant Hughes

Well put Grant.

And, I'd like to add, I think we (and SnoDrift) have tried to help out the regional guy by not increasing their entry fee proportionally to the increase in our costs.

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johnhuebbe

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EricW
ok, Lee, how about this:
1) Did you have any choices?
2) Did you choose the least expensive option that would allow you to put on your rally?

1) Yes we had choices, but they were not as cut and dry as you'd like to think. Nothing ever is.
2) We chose what was best for the current situation (taking into account other events), timing, our event, and lots of other factors.

You know I hear from several people right out there that "youse guys" have, to use a phrase I think is silly, "issues" with Anders Green, and it doesn't take much of a step to see that "issues" with Anders might be one reason you guys decided to stick with RMS Titanic as it stems ahead with Phineas Fogg at the helm---and that SEEMS inconceivable to some.

Now I know one reason I like Anders is because one time when we were bitching about costs, I said "You know if some of the organisers were more open (and honest) about their locked in costs, it sure would shut up a lot of the complaints..."

Anders shared a good listing of the expenses and then called on the phone to clarify further..

First time in 25 years..

OPENNESS and "cards face up on the table IS GOOD, John and Lee...

If people knew Oh let's just say as an example, that some organisers , knowing the positions from their On-line Yahoo Group of some vendors and organisers from last year were owed 70-85,000 bucks that RallyAmericar hasn't paid, and in a show of solidarity, decided to not jump the sinking ship---so that the people owed their thousands have a chance of getting their money back from Rallyamericar---before the ship goes down,

then if you guys had chosen to place your cards face up on the table, then people would respect the decision--even if they might---or might not agree....

I'm not trying to tell you how to run your event, but I'm going to bet a whole nickel that I've been around hard core seriously cheap-ass and broke ass (actually not broke ass but people who refuse to make any sort of effort too triage or compromise anything in their lives to allow themselves to go racing) racers a hell of a lot longer than either of you guys, and they grumble at every cost..

Openess is good..
And

Rather than doing what Morison does and always refer to 'reasons", explain.

Think, not "what" you decided --we know that.....derp derp...'splain "why".

It works... try it!

here's a chance: Did you edit away a post I made over on SS.com where you're a moderator regarding the horrible, defectively designed "Brand X" Subie suspension ad??
---ya know the Brand X we compared here and saw they were 3.5" or more too short in the rear meaning one cannot get the car at correct height front and rear?

I thought I posted a little not referencing the comparison thread here and suggesting somebody look at the length question---before buying something they cannot use---and then getting angry at the seller... and stated that that was the intention..

Did you delete that post---or did another, or did i simply forget to hit "Post"?

Second, I responded to you second PM about "all the complaints you are "constantly receiving" and suggesting we try and see who and where the constant complaints are from and the nature of the complaints---ie specific or just vague bitching>

You did not respond...

Knowledge is good, ya know?
Vague, ominous warnings does nothing but breed vague disrespect.

There are too few of us TRYING to do this nonsense rally shit to have all these undercurrents of discontent...

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2013 02:28PM by john vanlandingham.

HA! The idea that people have "issues" with me amuses me, because I don't see myself as someome important enough to have a strong opinion about in this hobby we call rally.

But I also know that believing this sport is a hobby and not a serious profession, and telling people this, is exactly one of things people have issues with me about. *grin*

Other issues:
-I have loudly said that "data says rally participation is shrinking", and this unfortunatly is the opposite of what various press releases at the time were saying. I'm sure that got on people's nerves.
-I promote the successes I have. When I do this, such as "80+ entries at Sandblast", other people get worked up to the tune of "When _we_ say 'entries', we mean cars only, so you're wrong when you say you have more 'entries' than we do." Well, I'm pretty sure that Oxford will back me up on this one. I know that this gets on people nerves too.
Hmmm, what else. Oh:
-I say that the big teams aren't very important and building a championship around them is unsustainable. Millions of lost dollars later, I know that gets on people nerves too. How could it not?
-Oh, and I also say "NRS has (some capability)." This gets on people nerves too, like NRS shouldn't be doing things to help out rallies, or shouldn't be talking about it, at least.

So yes, I believe that the grassroots guys are the core of the sport, that events and sanctioning bodies should be financially sound, that you should promote the things you've done, and that sanctioning bodies should be working hard to develop new things to make life easier for organisers. And I know that just this paragraph is enough for people to have issues with me for what it says and what it implies.

Oh well. Still gonna go out and try to put on fun and affordable events centered around people who pay their own bills.

But if anyone has some good other issues with me, you're in luck, Tuesday is "all the issues you can type" day. *grin*

Cheers to all!
Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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Anders Green
..... lots of stuff.....
Cheers to all!
Anders

Seems that rallying issues are the same both here(aust.) and the US.