Quote
john vanlandingham

You know I hear from several people right out there that "youse guys" have, to use a phrase I think is silly, "issues" with Anders Green, and it doesn't take much of a step to see that "issues" with Anders might be one reason you guys decided to stick with RMS Titanic as it stems ahead with Phineas Fogg at the helm---and that SEEMS inconceivable to some.

Now I know one reason I like Anders is because one time when we were bitching about costs, I said "You know if some of the organisers were more open (and honest) about their locked in costs, it sure would shut up a lot of the complaints..."

Anders shared a good listing of the expenses and then called on the phone to clarify further..

First time in 25 years..

OPENNESS and "cards face up on the table IS GOOD, John and Lee...

If people knew Oh let's just say as an example, that some organisers , knowing the positions from their On-line Yahoo Group of some vendors and organisers from last year were owed 70-85,000 bucks that RallyAmericar hasn't paid, and in a show of solidarity, decided to not jump the sinking ship---so that the people owed their thousands have a chance of getting their money back from Rallyamericar---before the ship goes down,

then if you guys had chosen to place your cards face up on the table, then people would respect the decision--even if they might---or might not agree....

I don't think it's my place to air all of the dirty laundry.

Quote
john vanlandingham
I'm not trying to tell you how to run your event, but I'm going to bet a whole nickel that I've been around hard core seriously cheap-ass and broke ass (actually not broke ass but people who refuse to make any sort of effort too triage or compromise anything in their lives to allow themselves to go racing) racers a hell of a lot longer than either of you guys, and they grumble at every cost..

Openess is good..
And

Rather than doing what Morison does and always refer to 'reasons", explain.

Think, not "what" you decided --we know that.....derp derp...'splain "why".

It works... try it!

I try and be as open as possible.

Quote
john vanlandingham
here's a chance: Did you edit away a post I made over on SS.com where you're a moderator regarding the horrible, defectively designed "Brand X" Subie suspension ad??
---ya know the Brand X we compared here and saw they were 3.5" or more too short in the rear meaning one cannot get the car at correct height front and rear?

I thought I posted a little not referencing the comparison thread here and suggesting somebody look at the length question---before buying something they cannot use---and then getting angry at the seller... and stated that that was the intention..

Did you delete that post---or did another, or did i simply forget to hit "Post"?

It was discussed by the moderators and moved to the trash bin. The seller requested it. The person trying to sell his suspension didn't want someone shitting all over his ad. It's bad Net-Etiquette. In real life it would essentially be like you seeing an ad on craigslist for suspension, going over to the guy's house when he has the buyer there, and telling the buyer how shitty that suspension is.

Now... if you want to start a brand new thread comparing your suspension to that brand of suspension, so buyers can make their own informed decision, I'm all for it.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Second, I responded to you second PM about "all the complaints you are "constantly receiving" and suggesting we try and see who and where the constant complaints are from and the nature of the complaints---ie specific or just vague bitching>

You did not respond...

Knowledge is good, ya know?
Vague, ominous warnings does nothing but breed vague disrespect.

I didn't think it needed another response. I've had tons of requests by people I know and plenty I don't know, who would like to just go to SS and read good information and not have to wade through all of the other BS, name calling, etc... It turns them off. Honestly, I don't know why I even care, since it's a different owner now, other than maybe because there is a wealth of info still on the forum. (and just to be clear, these requests are not coming from Morison ... and plenty of them are actually complaining about his, and others, etiquette, not just you)

Quote
john vanlandingham
There are too few of us TRYING to do this nonsense rally shit to have all these undercurrents of discontent...

What undercurrents of discontent? Are you just referring to the increase in fees or something more?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2013 04:44PM by johnhuebbe.

Quote
johnhuebbe

Quote
john vanlandingham

You know I hear from several people right out there that "youse guys" have, to use a phrase I think is silly, "issues" with Anders Green, and it doesn't take much of a step to see that "issues" with Anders might be one reason you guys decided to stick with RMS Titanic as it stems ahead with Phineas Fogg at the helm---and that SEEMS inconceivable to some.

Now I know one reason I like Anders is because one time when we were bitching about costs, I said "You know if some of the organisers were more open (and honest) about their locked in costs, it sure would shut up a lot of the complaints..."

Anders shared a good listing of the expenses and then called on the phone to clarify further..

First time in 25 years..

OPENNESS and "cards face up on the table IS GOOD, John and Lee...

If people knew Oh let's just say as an example, that some organisers , knowing the positions from their On-line Yahoo Group of some vendors and organisers from last year were owed 70-85,000 bucks that RallyAmericar hasn't paid, and in a show of solidarity, decided to not jump the sinking ship---so that the people owed their thousands have a chance of getting their money back from Rallyamericar---before the ship goes down,

then if you guys had chosen to place your cards face up on the table, then people would respect the decision--even if they might---or might not agree....

I don't think it's my place to air all of the dirty laundry.

Quote
john vanlandingham
I'm not trying to tell you how to run your event, but I'm going to bet a whole nickel that I've been around hard core seriously cheap-ass and broke ass (actually not broke ass but people who refuse to make any sort of effort too triage or compromise anything in their lives to allow themselves to go racing) racers a hell of a lot longer than either of you guys, and they grumble at every cost..

Openess is good..
And

Rather than doing what Morison does and always refer to 'reasons", explain.

Think, not "what" you decided --we know that.....derp derp...'splain "why".

It works... try it!

I try and be as open as possible.

Quote
john vanlandingham
here's a chance: Did you edit away a post I made over on SS.com where you're a moderator regarding the horrible, defectively designed "Brand X" Subie suspension ad??
---ya know the Brand X we compared here and saw they were 3.5" or more too short in the rear meaning one cannot get the car at correct height front and rear?

I thought I posted a little not referencing the comparison thread here and suggesting somebody look at the length question---before buying something they cannot use---and then getting angry at the seller... and stated that that was the intention..

Did you delete that post---or did another, or did i simply forget to hit "Post"?

It was discussed by the moderators and moved to the trash bin. The seller requested it. The person trying to sell his suspension didn't want someone shitting all over his ad. It's bad Net-Etiquette. In real life it would essentially be like you seeing an ad on craigslist for suspension, going over to the guy's house when he has the buyer there, and telling the buyer how shitty that suspension is.

Now... if you want to start a brand new thread comparing your suspension to that brand of suspension, so buyers can make their own informed decision, I'm all for it.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Second, I responded to you second PM about "all the complaints you are "constantly receiving" and suggesting we try and see who and where the constant complaints are from and the nature of the complaints---ie specific or just vague bitching>

You did not respond...

Knowledge is good, ya know?
Vague, ominous warnings does nothing but breed vague disrespect.

I didn't think it needed another response. I've had tons of requests by people I know and plenty I don't know, who would like to just go to SS and read good information and not have to wade through all of the other BS, name calling, etc... It turns them off. Honestly, I don't know why I even care, since it's a different owner now, other than maybe because there is a wealth of info still on the forum. (and just to be clear, these requests are not coming from Morison ... and plenty of them are actually complaining about his, and others, etiquette, not just you)

Quote
john vanlandingham
There are too few of us TRYING to do this nonsense rally shit to have all these undercurrents of discontent...

What undercurrents of discontent? Are you just referring to the increase in fees or something more?

It's bad Net-Etiquette? It's bad Net-Etiquette???

So wht kind of etiquette is it for the buyer of the stuff who wates his money on stuff which is flat defective as delivered???
That's a major reason why SS.com sucks, to protect 'feelings" you moderators decidedthat feeling were motr important than the $1500 some poor dumb fuck may spend for stuff that is 3 1/2' too short for the car its advertised as fitting???
It's bad Net-Etiquette.???

The poor seller, I feel for the guy, but I just re-woked a poor bastid in Denver's crap and virtually nothing excpt the front lower tubes was usable...It's rough but he needs to talk to who sold him the junk and explain what is so wrong because they are not usable as rally suspension.
And somebody better explain because obviously, the maker has no idea or he wouldn't have made them 3 1/2 inches short...

Obviously, you care about feelings an awful lot, and clearly you don't give a shit if some inncoent buys gets fucked up product---It IS unfortunate that the sellers is sitting on a pig in poke, but good god do you "Moderators" have no morals?

And your craigslist analogy, I have PMed sellers on Ebay in UK, and Germany when they are listing something , say a turbocharger as a "Cosworth" turbo when it is clear it's not...and sent them links ---and explained ---as I did in the post you deleted---that the intention is to prevent an unhappy buyer and then a conflict--..

Oddly enough, most have ---ready? --Thanked me and revised their listing..

Immoral..I am actually shocked...

I asked about who and what the nature of the complaints you said you "constantly" receive, were they specific or just vague bellyaching and whining.....for example a lot of guys whine and moan about sarcastic spellings I guess because they are just too uptight, faux-serious, or concerned about a facade of status and feel vaguely "offended"....
I asked because if that is the case, if I could see what sort of complaints I could see if there is anything I can do, or if they're just whiners, you know like "cornserv-a-farians" are constantly angry about anything not a mirror image of themselves.

But you didn't think it needed an answer...

Can't say you place on my Christmas Card list hasn't been revised, John..
I am really appalled...

Seriously appalled.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
Anders Green
But if anyone has some good other issues with me, you're in luck, Tuesday is "all the issues you can type" day. *grin*

I dont like the way you pronounce your name. I grew up with an Anders, ann-ders, so I dont know what all this on-ders stuff is about.

Quote
Anders Green
But if anyone has some good other issues with me, you're in luck, Tuesday is "all the issues you can type" day. *grin*

Your hats are whimsical

---

First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

Quote
john vanlandingham
It's bad Net-Etiquette? It's bad Net-Etiquette???

So wht kind of etiquette is it for the buyer of the stuff who wates his money on stuff which is flat defective as delivered???
That's a major reason why SS.com sucks, to protect 'feelings" you moderators decidedthat feeling were motr important than the $1500 some poor dumb fuck may spend for stuff that is 3 1/2' too short for the car its advertised as fitting???
It's bad Net-Etiquette.???

The poor seller, I feel for the guy, but I just re-woked a poor bastid in Denver's crap and virtually nothing excpt the front lower tubes was usable...It's rough but he needs to talk to who sold him the junk and explain what is so wrong because they are not usable as rally suspension.
And somebody better explain because obviously, the maker has no idea or he wouldn't have made them 3 1/2 inches short...

Obviously, you care about feelings an awful lot, and clearly you don't give a shit if some inncoent buys gets fucked up product---It IS unfortunate that the sellers is sitting on a pig in poke, but good god do you "Moderators" have no morals?

And your craigslist analogy, I have PMed sellers on Ebay in UK, and Germany when they are listing something , say a turbocharger as a "Cosworth" turbo when it is clear it's not...and sent them links ---and explained ---as I did in the post you deleted---that the intention is to prevent an unhappy buyer and then a conflict--..

Oddly enough, most have ---ready? --Thanked me and revised their listing..

I'm glad you feel like you've saved people from themselves or have a duty to. His online ad was not deceptive (like your example, turbo in a nonturbo car). People can do their own research on buying something. It was his ad and he didn't like you essentially telling people not to buy it. I think as the seller, he can request your post to be removed.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Immoral..I am actually shocked...

I asked about who and what the nature of the complaints you said you "constantly" receive, were they specific or just vague bellyaching and whining.....for example a lot of guys whine and moan about sarcastic spellings I guess because they are just too uptight, faux-serious, or concerned about a facade of status and feel vaguely "offended"....
I asked because if that is the case, if I could see what sort of complaints I could see if there is anything I can do, or if they're just whiners, you know like "cornserv-a-farians" are constantly angry about anything not a mirror image of themselves.

But you didn't think it needed an answer...

Can't say you place on my Christmas Card list hasn't been revised, John..
I am really appalled...

Seriously appalled.

Fine, I'll give in... I don't have the time to keep track off all of the complaints that I get each day from people on the board. But, if you really want to know, I received this today.

"I am of the opinion that if he is going to be a prick and launch personal attacks than you can go back to your own sandbox and kick sand in everyones face there instead."

or

"Does he have to resort to calling people names?"

most have no "specifics" but some do

I honestly don't read everything that goes on there and don't know what you are posting. I was simply sending you a friendly message about all the crap I get.

Quote
johnhuebbe

Quote
john vanlandingham
It's bad Net-Etiquette? It's bad Net-Etiquette???

So wht kind of etiquette is it for the buyer of the stuff who wates his money on stuff which is flat defective as delivered???
That's a major reason why SS.com sucks, to protect 'feelings" you moderators decidedthat feeling were motr important than the $1500 some poor dumb fuck may spend for stuff that is 3 1/2' too short for the car its advertised as fitting???
It's bad Net-Etiquette.???

The poor seller, I feel for the guy, but I just re-woked a poor bastid in Denver's crap and virtually nothing excpt the front lower tubes was usable...It's rough but he needs to talk to who sold him the junk and explain what is so wrong because they are not usable as rally suspension.
And somebody better explain because obviously, the maker has no idea or he wouldn't have made them 3 1/2 inches short...

Obviously, you care about feelings an awful lot, and clearly you don't give a shit if some inncoent buys gets fucked up product---It IS unfortunate that the sellers is sitting on a pig in poke, but good god do you "Moderators" have no morals?

And your craigslist analogy, I have PMed sellers on Ebay in UK, and Germany when they are listing something , say a turbocharger as a "Cosworth" turbo when it is clear it's not...and sent them links ---and explained ---as I did in the post you deleted---that the intention is to prevent an unhappy buyer and then a conflict--..

Oddly enough, most have ---ready? --Thanked me and revised their listing..

I'm glad you feel like you've saved people from themselves or have a duty to. His online ad was not deceptive (like your example, turbo in a nonturbo car). People can do their own research on buying something. It was his ad and he didn't like you essentially telling people not to buy it. I think as the seller, he can request your post to be removed.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Immoral..I am actually shocked...

I asked about who and what the nature of the complaints you said you "constantly" receive, were they specific or just vague bellyaching and whining.....for example a lot of guys whine and moan about sarcastic spellings I guess because they are just too uptight, faux-serious, or concerned about a facade of status and feel vaguely "offended"....
I asked because if that is the case, if I could see what sort of complaints I could see if there is anything I can do, or if they're just whiners, you know like "cornserv-a-farians" are constantly angry about anything not a mirror image of themselves.

But you didn't think it needed an answer...

Can't say you place on my Christmas Card list hasn't been revised, John..
I am really appalled...

Seriously appalled.

Fine, I'll give in... I don't have the time to keep track off all of the complaints that I get each day from people on the board. But, if you really want to know, I received this today.

"I am of the opinion that if he is going to be a prick and launch personal attacks than you can go back to your own sandbox and kick sand in everyones face there instead."

or

"Does he have to resort to calling people names?"

most have no "specifics" but some do

I honestly don't read everything that goes on there and don't know what you are posting. I was simply sending you a friendly message about all the crap I get.

As you move down the Christmas card list, are you serious that No Shit is Given that the product the innocent seller is selling is defective and unusable for what it was sold---to the victim/seller as?

Your detachment seems hard to fathom..
You know something is defective and your answer is in it's essence:
"Tough shit, fuck the buyer if he doesn't do lots of research and we're going to delete links or references to where BOTH the seller and a potential buyer can be alerted to this defect in advance---and thus avoid conflict and recriminations, fuck the potential buyer, the seller snivelled."


And detachment continues in that you don't what the complainers are complaining about but you just send out warnings---which are by there nature threats..

God I'm glad i don't have to be there...

How were you raised without a sense of right and wrong, John?
If a pretty exterior appearance all that matters?

Earlier you said you don't want to air dirty laundry" or words to that effect....so you mean that in order to preserve the appearance of friendliness and smiles, you will hush your mouth about things you know are potentially of serious interest to many?

Ever see how that works?
Doesn't.
Truth eventually comes out, problems are solved better sooner...but if people hide---or abet hiding, of problems they just get bigger.
And people become cynical.

Maybe you should ask "all the crap you get" guys to be more specific.

As I said, the great pass-time of the White american Male is being outraged and a lot of it is "feeling offended"...

Perhaps you should explain to them that they need to be more specific and more tolerant of what offends them, and then tell them to mellow the fuck out..
That forum is ostensibly about an adult pass-time after all.
Allegedly.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I have an issue with Anders, ever since I saw a picture of him sporting GrB skates and Freddy Mercury shorts.

Those who defend shennanigans shouldn't chicken out of airing out dirty loundry when they are called out. I'm just sayin'

---

Cheers
M.Samli
Phoenix AZ
Gaylant VR4
EVO III GSR (Stolen)


Rallies are no place for traitors

Quote
Carl S
I dont like the way you pronounce your name. I grew up with an Anders, ann-ders, so I dont know what all this on-ders stuff is about.

Quote
Gravity Fed
Your hats are whimsical

Bahahaha!

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2013 10:43AM by Anders Green.

Nothing that a simple phone call couldn't clear up.

Good talking with you John.

Quote
johnhuebbe
Nothing that a simple phone call couldn't clear up.

Good talking with you John.

Nice talking to you even if you do drive a beetle, at least its RWD---until it spins!

Knowledge is Good.
You should re-watch that great documentary of what college was like for some of us: Animal House...where the motto of Farber College was just that: Knowledge is Good.

Openness MAY solve some problems before they become BIG problems.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=5izm9kHeHkg&feature=fvwp

Quote
EricW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=5izm9kHeHkg&feature=fvwp

Ahhh... Simpsons. Foundation of my childhood

For the record, I don't have an issue with Anders. I like Anders, he's always treated me decently and I enjoyed working Rally TN.

---

It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL