Looking for someone that can do a brake job in seattle

Robert is right, you get what you pay for in most circumstances.

Last year I had an 05 Caravan I was using for work. Having it constantly overloaded combined with the hilly geography around Vancouver drastically shortened the life of the brakes. I know some peeps who have large cranberry farm and am able to buy parts at Jobber through them. Complete front and rear brakes for the caravan (it was a regular caravan not the longer grand caravan so mine had drums in the back), was $432+ Tax.

I walked into a brake shop and wanted labour only. A few said no, and the one that said yes said he couldn't guarantee anything. Which is completely reasonable because he didn't supply the parts.

He quoted me $75 per corner including the bleed, which i felt was reasonable.

When I came to pick it up, he tried to slide in a brake flush that he wanted $110 for. After a short conversation, he withdrew the charge for the flush since I hadn't asked for it.

So $732 with jobber parts for all 4 corners.

I don't know how much a shop would mark parts up... 100%? So that makes the parts $864 + $300 = $1164. It adds up quick!

To get the jobber parts I had to invest a fair amount of time and gas to procure parts, so at the end of the day since time is money... I didn't save that much.

When my CV joint started clicking I went to an inexpensive parts supplier in remanufactured parts and had them swap out the shaft. The one they installed had a different size ABS ring, and eliminated the front ABS. Being too busy with work, I never bothered going back. I probably could have paid a little more to visit the Gene's and Robert's of the world and had no headaches.

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john vanlandingham

The question was: Help artistic brah who has worn out the pads and may have chewed rotors.


The guy KNOWS there's the waltz in to anyplace and stand on one foot, rolls the eyes back and say "Like namaste doods, do whatever" (stating thereby that "Money is no object"..
You boys think a for a second and you'll realise you know that he knows that option...

Hmmm....

Perhaps not directed at me but....I'll take offense for all Yogies John, you know me well enough to know my suggestion was not to say "money is no object" it was to research a bit, make a deal. Of course he can learn how to put his brakes on himself or you could for him



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2013 10:39AM by Wannabe.

heymagic, not referring to you just using the links you provided for the rant.

I don't want to discredit anything but pushing the pistons back without opening the bleeders is not a problem if everything is still working as intended. The "puritan" way that these ASE bulletins and all those associations recommend with all their studies kinda makes me laugh with how FUBAR their theories are.

If a brake system is working properly and nothing is torn then pushing the pistons back is not a problem at all. Theres no way "contaminants" can get there unless you drop dirt in the reservoir or down the bleeder hole. If the dust boot is torn and the piston is dirty the then you should do a proper job and take the caliper off and replace the seal and put a new dust boot as well. The only crap that can develop in a brake system is the deterioration of the brake fluid if the system is severely overheated and it carbonizes the additives in the glycol.

The bleeding procedures is a class act of how ironic they are:
"The preferred method for bleeding ABS brakes is to use a vacuum bleeder. Bleeding order is from the master cylinder out. Then LF, RF, LR, RR." Whoever wrote this has NO clue and is nothing but a theorist.

1st - Using vacuum through a brake system can cause cavitation (create bubbles) in tight sharp areas.
2nd - Using vacuum in an ABS even worse because of the more intricate valves.
3rd - Bleeding LF RF RR FE RT DE WTF??? These are ALL gramma tales. It DOES NOT MATTER. The reasoning that one should bleed starting closest to the master is bullshit. Especially if the car has ABS.

If the car has ABS then the 2 lines going from the master to the ABS pump effectively end there. Then 4 new lines start over in a diag pattern these days, so that even adds more BS to that theory. And just think of this, a lot of cars have the ABS on the right side of the car, then surely the LF shouldn't be the first to bleed.

There's more to the matter but not gonna put a dissertation on a forum.

I use one of these for bleeding. Sure beats the two person method

Thank you Paulinho, love ya!

You could have mentioned: if there's big dirt clods and hunks of asphalt on the pistons, they might ought to get cleaned before pushing the pistons in...but that's a matter of basic ordinary looking, and minor level thinking..
not a big deal..it's kinda on the level of EVEN WITHOUT a warning label, we can figure out we shouldn't poke ourselves in the eye with a Torx T40 bit...

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Well then just push 'em back. There seems to be two distinct trains of thought on this and I'll continue to go with the way I've been told many times.

If there isn't any contamination from say piston wear,seal wear, water and rust then why do caliper pistons stick? Why do caliper pistons rust and the plating come off? Where does the black shit in the bottom of brake and clutch masters come from? Honest questions btw.

I have to err on the side of safe, as most professionals do. I will still continue to say a caliper bleeder should be opened before pushing back. Brakes and suspension work are two rather critical areas that have to be done carefully and correctly. Failures can result in injury, death and lawsuits..none of which I want any part of myself. So forgive the 'rant'.

http://www.monkeysee.com/play/11917-replacing-brakes-retracting-caliper

Oh and in the name of full dislosure, the car brought in with a dropping pedal yesterday after a home quicky brake job turned out to be a mechanical error not hydraulic. The owner very carefully installed both rear adjusters incorrectly. After a few stops the adjusters slipped, rear shoes went out of adjustment (not far enough out) and down went the pedal. Luckily his wife wasn't in the shop to hear the reason when he paid so we told him to tell her they just needed bled out. What momma don't know momma can't fuss about.

I will add that if your reservoir is full and you're pushing back quite a bit then suck some fluid out of the reservoir before pushing.

Ask me how I know.

Oh, and don't push back on one caliper while the other caliper is hanging off the rotor.

Ask me how I know.

Simon

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Simon Wright
Owner/Driver USUK Racing - Home of the USUK Racing LED Light Bars!

North America Rally Map

I find all these comments interesting to see everyone's thought process. It always makes me laugh to read all this stuff and then remember the time my wifes step brother drove back from San Fransisco to Olympia. As he was driving into some parking lot in S.F. the rear slave on his pickup blew out! He cut the brake line and folded it over to slow the fluid from draining. When he were done, he drove 101 all the way home with no rear brakes! He just had to stop a lot to fill the I.V. bottle of brake fluid. I know this is true because he was kind enough to stop by our place in portland for a BBQ on his way by! It made for great conversation!
Side note, still working of a few options on getting the brakes fixed. Worse case I was thinking, gosh with what some want to charge I could have my brother buy me a plane ticket or pay for a rental car and I could have free transportation for a weekend in rainy Seattle! Hang around, drink some beers, throw on some brakes and enjoy the big city!

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heymagic
Oh and in the name of full dislosure, the car brought in with a dropping pedal yesterday after a home quicky brake job turned out to be a mechanical error not hydraulic. The owner very carefully installed both rear adjusters incorrectly. After a few stops the adjusters slipped, rear shoes went out of adjustment (not far enough out) and down went the pedal. Luckily his wife wasn't in the shop to hear the reason when he paid so we told him to tell her they just needed bled out. What momma don't know momma can't fuss about.

You're a good man!

And you've taught me a few things in this thread. You wanna know what happens when you don't notice two little tabs on late 90's Mustang front pads and put them in backwards? The exploded piston in the caliper was very interesting...apparently they don't like many many PSI concentrated on a pin about 2mm round. Who'd have thunk it?

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

Maybe I am stating the obvious but it bears repeating. There is a lot of oversimplification on the internet. "Blah blah blah just pop that engine in". "All you have to do is zap zap that roll cage together". "Just stuff some pads in those calipers". "It shouldn't take more than five minutes"

The devil is in the details my friends. Training and experience count!

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

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heymagic
Well then just push 'em back. There seems to be two distinct trains of thought on this and I'll continue to go with the way I've been told many times.

If there isn't any contamination from say piston wear,seal wear, water and rust then why do caliper pistons stick? Why do caliper pistons rust and the plating come off? Where does the black shit in the bottom of brake and clutch masters come from? Honest questions btw.

I have to err on the side of safe, as most professionals do. I will still continue to say a caliper bleeder should be opened before pushing back. Brakes and suspension work are two rather critical areas that have to be done carefully and correctly. Failures can result in injury, death and lawsuits..none of which I want any part of myself. So forgive the 'rant'.

http://www.monkeysee.com/play/11917-replacing-brakes-retracting-caliper

I understand your "better safe than sorry" approach, muchos kudos for that, wish more mechanics were like that. But you don't have to tell me how critical brakes are, working along side peeps like Porsche OE on the new 991 GT3, Prodrive/Aston Martin, BMW Motorsports etc. It has been paying my rent for a long time, and its not because I have a "train of thought" or a "theory", its because I know what, how, and why.

So to answer you questions:
Caliper pistons rust (on the inside of the seal) for a couple of reasons, 1 is the fluid being hydroscopic the water going to attack the steel (if its a low quality alloy, mostly older cars) if the fluid isn't replaced periodically (with pad/disc change). 2 is the car sitting to a long time without fluid.

Plating normally comes off again from bad materials and its normally from debris impact on the outside of the seal, that then ends up being pushed back in from idiot mechanics that didn't see the problem. Once the plating is scratched/open the moisture and heat will start to lift it up more and more.

All that black stuff is deteriorated fluid, most often its bad quality fluid that does that, it breaks down overtime and its not because of heat. Hence why some fluids cost $8/gallon and others cost $80/L

The most important part to emphasize is pushing the pistons back without opening the bleeders is a common practice that is not an issue.
The big problem is mechanics that cant think for them selves following those ASE advice bulletins and all their mambo jambo gospel and thinking its gods way, and push the pistons back because as long as they open the bleeder because OMG its all of a sudden safer for the ABS and the children will have a safer future and all the dirt inside. But then the worn seals and rusted pistons and bores etc don't get serviced because its ok as long as you open the bleeders. Do the proper job and no dirt will need to be flushed out the bleeders. As a mechanic it would mean more work = more money.

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Rallymech
Maybe I am stating the obvious but it bears repeating. There is a lot of oversimplification on the internet. "Blah blah blah just pop that engine in". "All you have to do is zap zap that roll cage together". "Just stuff some pads in those calipers". "It shouldn't take more than five minutes"

The devil is in the details my friends. Training and experience count!

Training experience only count if you practice with good methods, because as we know practice makes perfect, and if you practice shit then you get perfect shit.

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john vanlandingham
...but that's a matter of basic ordinary looking, and minor level thinking..
not a big deal..it's kinda on the level of EVEN WITHOUT a warning label, we can figure out we shouldn't poke ourselves in the eye with a Torx T40 bit...

Exactly John, but that kind of person is becoming a rare breed these days ya know. Its bollocks to think for yourself and analyze nowadays.

OK..(not being combative) if there is water, rust, particulate matter in the caliper, and the caliper is extended then seems logical that pushing the crap back up stream isn't ideal. Obviously proper bleeding and maintainance is the answer, but typically when brakes go metal to metal someone has missed a step or twelve in the maintainance process.

I never said nor implied that opening the bleeder makes all the bad stuff go away, it just doesn't shove it back upstream. I haven't seen any thing in writing that says it won't do potential damage. It is either ignored or a statement is made to open bleeders.

I'm not an ASE Nazi, I agree with a lot of there procedures being BS in the real world. That is another point of this discussion, technical manuals are a guideline at best, not gosple. They are full of mistakes, incorrect operations and stuff just flat left out. We had a good tech at one shop I worked at tighten a crank bolt to 35 lbs. One of the manuals actually said that torque. A couple weeks later we were putting a crank in the motor because the pulley came loose and destroyed the end of the crank. I think the proper torque was about 70-80 lbs. The shop owner was pissed but it was his book that was incorrect, the only thing that saved the tech job.

Seems we're headed down the old flu shot, wear a condom, sunscreen, rotate tires, own a gun road. Since I don't have a need to be proven correct all the time I'll shut up. Good thing is people are thinking a bit more and that is progress!

Edit, that doesn't read like I meant it....I'll remain unconvinced that my way is incorrect or unecessary but not wanting to argue or worry about pissing people off I'll be quiet. I do value others experience and techniques, live is a learning process start to finish...or at least should be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2013 01:19PM by heymagic.