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mekilljoydammit

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john vanlandingham
What do you think the utter collapse of Subies WRC competitiveness stems from?

Since we're offtopic and shooting the shit more than anything.

Oh noes this is as serious as a heart-attack!!!

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I think it's kind of a lot of things. I got into a chat with someone who worked at Prodrive, who said that the move to Sachs dampers in '05 killed driver feedback,

wait a second.. I read an extremely long interview with the Belge Christian Loriaux when he was still head hero at Pro-drive and the "new" Dodge Neon version was the thing, and there he said quite clearly that "all the systems on the car are too complicated for (pea-brained children ) drivers to understand anything so ---(in essence) I have to trust all the data, and have the cars set up like i say and they should just (shut up) and drive"

It was abundantly clear that he was uninterested in driver feed back....

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and the new style body had all sorts of issues with the rear geometry.

That is mighty suspect, the rear was completely conventional, what could be wrong with long links...he (designer Loriaux) had been there for 10 years, all the the glory days with McRae.

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I think that Prodrive may have been leaning on fully active diffs for tuning more than the other teams, so when they got banned they had a bunch more work to do to make up the gap and that hurt them even more.

that was 06 and Subie seemed to be struggling but you're right 06 and he was way down with only 3 2nd places worth mentioning..and that was it

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At the same time Ford and Citroen were stepping up their game.

Ford hired Loriaux starting 02 season

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Layout-wise... I dunno. Yeah, the engine's hanging out there farther, but it's not like an Audi I5, it's a short little thing and it's aluminum.

Ain't that short and its way way wider and there's a lot of aluminum.. Aluminum is roughly 1/3 the weight but for strenth you use 2-3 times the thickness, and there's a lot of that engine...

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Whether that beats a cast iron thing and transmission in front of the axle centerline but not as far forwards, I dunno. Ford put a lot of bucks to moving the transmission guts behind the axle centerlines back in the day on the Fuckus.

Yes the first version, but they went to conventional with the 0 something model.
seems what everybody does is tilt the engine rearward so the weight is more over the axles.

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I prefer the YB arrangement but apparently the production engineers didn't or something, go figure.

Well I do too but that's because I, a mere schmuck, can afford one and as a stock engine, its way stronger than any other with a nice steel crank, steel flywheel and good forged pistons...and its a drop in deal in the right car.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
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mekilljoydammit
Weeeeell, mebbe having the car not give feedback to the driver worked better when it was all active gizmos. The Imprezda that looked like a Fuckus originally had some multilink fuckery in the back, which apparently was terrible on gravel and got swapped for struts. I won't claim to know the folks in charge, just thought I'd chip in with some stuff I came across and noodled over.

As for aluminum vs iron... given perfect castings sure, but outside of F-1 the engine castings aren't perfect, and there's a lot of excess mass on the iron blocks because you can't rely on the holes being in quite the right place... not that I think any of this is news to you. I know it's not apples to apples, but I did scale an EJ25 I have sitting around (sans turbos and shit which are going to be the same for everything, ish) and it was around 240 pounds, oilpan to intake manifold. I dunno what a 4G63 is, but I'd bet it's a bit more, and from wrestling one around, I'd lay money on the 3S-GTE being at least a hundred pounds more (maybe I should weigh my brother-in-law's spare one some day when it's less cold)

In Group N use, I still bet the biggest thing the Mitsu has over the Subie is a homologated engine and turbo that works better breathing through a restrictor... and for that matter, there's the air bypass turbo witchery thingadoodles on the Evo exhaust manifolds too for more good antilag, which is probably on the stock (older ones at least) ones for homologation. Though I dunno. There really are a spate of problems compared to the Evo (I say this as someone with a WRX as a grocery getter, at least it's not a blue one)

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john vanlandingham
Sure, but how much forward of the axle centerine? About half the width of the motor to the center of the crank... The block is say 6 or 6.5" wide...
And weight---a LOT more??? I forget what a whole 4g62 weighs but its is a LOT lighter than a YB Cosworth....crank is much lighter, rods are lighter, pistons are lighter, and the block being narrower and shorter has to also be a LOT lighter than YB... but compared with EJ I can't say..

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What do you think the utter collapse of Subies WRC competitiveness stems from?

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john vanlandingham

What do you think the utter collapse of Subies WRC competitiveness stems from?

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john vanlandingham
What do you think the utter collapse of Subies WRC competitiveness stems from?

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Josh Wimpey

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john vanlandingham
What do you think the utter collapse of Subies WRC competitiveness stems from?