So, I took one of the pieces of advice in this thread http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,76921 and tried again to contact people with Evo Xs who are fast. And, lo and behold, the person I most wanted to hear back from not only replied, but was quite forthcoming (and even wrote in English). His car is a bit lighter than mine, but the wheel-rates that he runs are quite close to what I had planned.
The key difference, however, is that his car gets about half of its single-wheel bump rate from swaybars. I was thinking of trying to run without swaybars. Can you all please educate me on difference between springs and swaybars as opposed to same single-wheel rate achieved entirely with springs? |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Senior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Why not share details instead of referring to or alluding to things. Copy and paste.
Who, what, where, when , how and why.. Details. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
It's an Evo X. Springs are 140 #/inch (linear) with motion ratios of .96 and .84. The sprung corner-weights are about 750# each front and 500# each rear. The unsprungs are all 120# a corner. The bars I'm not so sure about, but I know they come out as contributing around 130 #/inch to single-wheel bump in the front and about 100 #/inch in the rear.
But my question is more general than this. I was wondering why someone would set up a car for gravel with about half the single-wheel bump coming from bars, instead of much less than this (and maybe even zero, as in: no bars). After all, as you rightfully pointed out in the other thread, we're after grip here, not handling. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2013 05:05PM by Iowa999. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Senior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Senior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Of course it matters, I would not have asked. Note most of the rest of the world is not peopled by paranoid idiots so things like discussing set-ups---and giving permissions--never even enters their minds..and they don't believe me when I make reference to that type of response---they think I'm exaggerating. I would have postsed both the questions and replies. Context, what questions were posed, how they were posed, if they are like your mode of writing here or if they were clear and consice. Because your writings here have all been not looking for informatyion or particulars but instead searching for confirmation or affirmation of something you have decided to do... A common thing granted but it is not dialog as much of the world does it especially relating to silly things like cars and car set ups. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
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TronDD Tim Meunier Infallible Moderator Location: Boston, MA Join Date: 10/27/2011 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 252 Rally Car: 96 Subaru Impreza |
At least let us know what country this car is run in. I can see how conditions where if gravel roads are very flat, smooth and hard packed, it could change whether or not sway bars make sense.
Don't know enough about it, though...just throwing that out there. Tim. |
Creech Scott Creech Godlike Moderator Location: Jane, MO Join Date: 12/02/2012 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 415 Rally Car: Audi 90 Quattro (WIP) |
Instead of the enormous, bandwidth-wasting blowup I can see coming, why not devote the REST of this thread to actually answering the question(s) with what information we have at hand?
Please? Parfois, on fait pas semblant! I am: I know: I am from: Nobody. Nothing. Nowhere. |
As it turns out, in the time it took to have dinner, Antoine L'Estage wrote back and said that it's no problem to say that those numbers came from his car. He also said that he runs the same set-up, minus the swaybars, for winter, such as Sno*Drift.
And, now, please can we talk about swaybars + springs versus the same wheel-rate using only springs? Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2013 08:10PM by Iowa999. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Senior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Look bub, I have been in worldwide direct contact with active participants since I was 15--45 years. Only a few isolated cases, mostly or exclusively low level rank amatuers who are concerned with their imagined status are the only people who complain about my "social skills'. I am suggesting that your "social skills" are the major imediment here. You could have, had you been brought up to behave and speak like normally socially adjust people , said 'So I talked to Joe Blow (link) from Bumfawk, Egypt who runs his Misterbitchy in the Egyptian Gravel champ-peen-ship, and has done fairly well (link to results)....and he said he uses 300 lb/in springs on front, and 190 on the rear" But no, you act all mysterious and withold and blabber about privacy and "disclosure'.. Talk to the hand. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Senior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Because ther answer in already in this guys mind. He is not looking for answers or dialog, but affirmation... he has now contacted one guy---who may or not really be atune or aware of what rates anymore than this guy is but he has an answer, that's it. I say thread over. The spring rates quoted above are on the face of it absurd but hey, what do I know. I just piull spring and damper rates out of a hat and must be just lucky that guys are winning events and class wins with the junk I build. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Senior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
No moderators here and why should they anyway? You don't like the way discussion has gone? Try speaking like a normal human instead of demanding others adopt your stuck up and uptight officious tone. besides you siad you have your answer...put those springs and sway bars on. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
heymagic Banned Infallible Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
I'd say it is not ok to devulge stuff without the contributors permission. Some people are pretty touchy about info shared in confidence.
You have to realize that there are many driving styles and preferences tho. What one person likes and succeeds with another person may think is totally horrid. Some people may get good results with an evil handling car and not know it is evil handling..it is what they are used to. Any numbers you get from any source will be a starting point for you. It may be good enough or you msay need to tweak them for your personal prefence. Rally is on ever changing surfaces and conditions so there is no perfect set-up. Adaptabilty on your behalf will be a great suspension tool. Years ago when I was in the stock car world there was a gent running the conventional Chebby Malibu street stock class. He was the local track champ on an asphalt surface. Very fast. He ran a spring set-up everyone else thought was beyond goofy. Big number springs that were unheard of. He did not run a front sway bar (also unheard of) and when quizzed his logic was that the car had independant suspension, why tie it together with an anti- sway bar. Unconventional but it certainly worked for him. If you haven't quizzed ACP I can get you contact info. he is pretty good at helping people in these situations. |
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