XR4Ti - Rally Car?
Posted by RWD4ME
Tony Latham Godlike Moderator Location: Richmond, BC, Canada Join Date: 03/13/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 102 Rally Car: 2015 Subaru WRX |
Banned Ultra Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
You do love distorting everything don't you John. It's stuff like this - intentional deception designed to discredit - that should land you in the sin bin. (which we know will never happen) Nobody, but you, has ever said that the changes to 2wd classes have anything what-so-ever to do with the 'problem' of open class cars going too fast. That's your little conspiracy theory alone. Yes, the original bulletin outlined the goals of the class revision committee and yes, reducing the cost and speed of open class cars was a part of that, as was reducing the overall class count. I still don't see how you, or anyone, connect the two. Open class is proving difficult to deal with and little was done with regards to slowing down open cars. The board looked at moving to a 33mm restrictor for everyone - since FIA is now 33mm - but realized it would be better to move 32mm across the board so fewer people would have to change. THAT change would be best done when all sanctioning bodies in North America would agree to make the change. Discussions of moving to a spec fuel are causing many to balk (you have to control all the fuel, not just the 'race gas') and the mere mention of going to 'pump gas' raises even more questions. (now you have to test everyone for additives and using the 'right' pump fuel.) There are some cross border issues with a spec fuel, but not insurmountable. It's still being looked into, but right now it looks like it might cost some of the competitors (those running 94 pump and a few with fuel sponsorships) more money - so it will likely die, even though there is sponsorship money attached to it.
What makes you think I was 'talked into' anything? I didn't have a vote on the new classes, I barely had a voice in the discussion at the board level beyond talking about how I thought the classes would impact marketing the sport. What I have done is defend the process, somewhat, when people dismiss the class changes as ill thought-out. I also expressed the reality that the board can and will listen to suggestions and complaints when they are properly and well presented. (With the caveat that listing to suggestions won't always mean agreeing with them or adopting them.) At the end of the day, I expect more changes to come. CARS is promoting 2wd more by dedicating more of the TV broadcast to 2wd, requiring 2wd podiums at national events, producing 2wd online videos (PN one should be out soon.) None of that can be seen as a bad thing. At the moment I'd soften that statement to 'CARS doesn't intend to include it...' The sentiment from the board has always been that if the class gains popularity as a national class that it would likely continue. It needs to be remembered that the class hasn't been awarded for about half of the years it's been recognized. I expect more news on this issue as well, but getting things done inside a volunteer association can be frustratingly slow. The right answer and the quick answer are often two different things. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015 
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John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Banned Ultra Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Rather than looking at this as a 2l turbo class, look at it as allowing forced induction and larger displacements into the 'Canadian Gr2,' which is 2400cc adjusted, and represents 3/4 of all of our 2wd entries. (In the past decade I think there has been one, maybe two, turbo volvos run in Canada - is Topping's car turbo?) I still expect the 5cyl limit will disappear. Not even a shred of truth to that. Yes, we are talking with manufacturers and trying to get them involved. Yes, I HOPE I can make some announcements about new brands getting involved in the CRC and I expect that would bring contingency money to teams running those brands and support to the events and championship. I wouldn't EVER campaign to change the rules to try and attract a manufacturer and I doubt the board would ever agree to it if it were proposed. (Create a spec class, given enough support, or a brand 'cup' sure, but that's different. Bring enough money and we can have the Latham cup for rwd cars!) Interestingly, both Subaru and Yokohama have been involved in the CRC much longer than most of our competitors and volunteers. But, you're right. The health and growth of the sport relies on the grassroots and growth at the club level. This is one of the reasons CARS has set the insurance levy for RallySprints at a loss but at a price point that makes holding sprints attractive.(IIRC, $30/car insurance for sprints, up to 30 km and an addtional $1/km after) First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Alex Staidle Junior Moderator Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Join Date: 08/21/2009 Age: Settling Down Posts: 1,719 Rally Car: Various Heaps |
Tony Latham Godlike Moderator Location: Richmond, BC, Canada Join Date: 03/13/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 102 Rally Car: 2015 Subaru WRX |
Hi Keith,
Thanks for chiming in on my concerns. I'm very glad to see such a positive and clear statement regarding my theory. I was hoping I was wrong. I'm not so egocentric as to fight for a Latham Cup for rwd though. I think the Retrogrouch Cup sounds better and it will include the 6 cylinder and front wheel drive folks as well. 
Best regards, Tony 2015 Subaru WRX Traded the Audi for the above Sold the 1993 Honda Civic EG w/B16A Conversion to the Raw Racing boys 6 bicycles because, you know, global warming and all |
Banned Ultra Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
And I was hoping for someting in a name that recognises the brute strength and focus it takes to manhandle 'classic' rally cars through the stages... perhaps the Athletic Cup... First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Tony Latham Godlike Moderator Location: Richmond, BC, Canada Join Date: 03/13/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 102 Rally Car: 2015 Subaru WRX |
"For every mile of special stage there are two miles of ditches (gutters) FOR ALL OUR SAKE KEITH, STAY OUT OF THE GUTTERS!!! 2015 Subaru WRX Traded the Audi for the above Sold the 1993 Honda Civic EG w/B16A Conversion to the Raw Racing boys 6 bicycles because, you know, global warming and all |
Banned Ultra Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
'twas just a bit of jockularity...
First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Josh Wimpey Elite Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
Tony Latham Godlike Moderator Location: Richmond, BC, Canada Join Date: 03/13/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 102 Rally Car: 2015 Subaru WRX |
Banned Ultra Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Trust me, I don't like the cosnstant re-hashing of this subject either. Problem is people spread untruths about what's happening and why. I trust you mean well with this but even your summary is full of wrong assumptions. And some of them aren't accurate Speed and safety, tied-together, was never a concern for 2wd cars. The speed of open class cars is a concern because we are seeing max average speeds being broken at several events. Saying the roads are the problem is true, but it isn't like there are roads growing between the trees. Finding slower roads is one thing, getting access to use them is another. For the most part, roads that are still in use are being straightened for commercial users and new roads are built straight right from the beginning. So sure, the roads are the problem. They are also much a much tougher problem to solve. We could go back and forth all day long on the 'traction limited' argument and never come to terms with it. Agreed. The original proposal did ban cars, that was recognised and Gr5 was given a reprieve for two years at least. Important context to that was the understanding of the board that the regions - where the cars are being seen in use - would continue to recognise Gr5 indefinately and have a generally more inclusive class structure. It was never intended that any car be 'sent packing' only that the classes recognised in the national championship be fewer. (RA doesn't recognise Open Light, PGT, GR2 or Production in their national championship I beleive) Again a case of someone reading something into actions that wasn't there. The committee looked at the cars widely available today as well as the trend for future production of cars to make sure we could class cars reasonably in five or ten years. The example of how flawed the old classes were was that a new golf built for production classes would have found itself up against STis and EVOs. Any concern about accomodating 1.6 turbos was trend driven, not as a direct tool to attract manufacturers. Again, we could argue this all day long and not come to agreement. One of the big factors that seems to be forgotten regularly in this is that the Canadian Gr2 is different than the US Gr2 and has a 2400cc adjusted displacement cap. Agreed. The cars should be allowed to run if they show up, and that will ALWAYS be the case. If there isn't any reasonable competition for the national title, at what point does it no longer make sense to have a national title? First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Josh Wimpey Elite Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
Jason Hynd Junior Moderator Location: Oak Harbor, WA Join Date: 03/16/2007 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 333 Rally Car: XR4TI a slow build! |
Grant Hughes Mod Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
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