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RWD4ME
Hi Tony,

"There will be Group 5 for the long term in Western Canada".

Say in the case of a new build in Canada if the car is built to the specs of the old CARS Group 5 rules. How does one get this logbooked if the class and structure doesn't exist.

Would CARS still issue a log book if the log book was sought in 2014 or later?

Do any other governing bodies have Group 5 or more preferable rules?

"Vehicles registered in any of the United States of America, where the driver is competing on CARS entry permit (NRR 11.1.10), shall be acceptable to compete in Canadian events provided that they meet the requirements of current RA/NASA Rally Regulations. Entrants whose cars are entered under this provision must be able to produce, upon request by CARS or event officials, a copy of the relevant Rally Regulations. Failure to produce these regulations may result in vehicle being judged according to CARS regulations."

"SCCA/RA/NASA Vehicle Log Books are to be accepted at all CARS rallies."

"Failure to present the Vehicle Log Book at scrutineering will result in a $25.00 fine which must be paid in full before the offending entrant will be allowed to start the event."

Looks entirely plausible. Heck one might just go and get a logbook in another place just to avoid all of these rule/class deletions and/or cancellations.

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Kirk Coughlin
Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI

Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.

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AnthonyLatham

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Morison

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AnthonyLatham
I think the Retrogrouch Cup sounds better and it will include the 6 cylinder and front wheel drive folks as well.

And I was hoping for someting in a name that recognises the brute strength and focus it takes to manhandle 'classic' rally cars through the stages... perhaps the Athletic Cup...

"For every mile of special stage there are two miles of ditches (gutters)

The soda-straw rule won't make for less bent cars. It will make for boring spectating. A parade of slow cars in the dirt.... Woo-hoo!

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

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JohnLane
The soda-straw rule won't make for less bent cars. It will make for boring spectating. A parade of slow cars in the dirt.... Woo-hoo!

I'm a bit confused now.
The 'common wisdom' expressed by many here is that 2wd is traction limited and a restrictor wouldn't slow the cars down anyway.

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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Morison
I'm a bit confused now.
The 'common wisdom' expressed by many here is that 2wd is traction limited and a restrictor wouldn't slow the cars down anyway.

That was easy *wink!

The parade of restricted 2wd cars will still try as hard as they can... Now there is no chance of making up any time in straights! Where will they drop off as they try to make up for that little oopsie; knowing that the team is but four seconds adrift? Now it will have to be in braking or sliding through turns more quickly.

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

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RWD4ME
Hi Tony,

"There will be Group 5 for the long term in Western Canada".

Say in the case of a new build in Canada if the car is built to the specs of the old CARS Group 5 rules. How does one get this logbooked if the class and structure doesn't exist.

Would CARS still issue a log book if the log book was sought in 2014 or later?

Hi Morten,

Trying to get an answer for you. I can't imagine that our logbooks require a class to be declared so this shouldn't be a problem. Vehicle specs can change over the car's life and this has to be allowed for.

Tony

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2015 Subaru WRX
Traded the Audi for the above
Sold the 1993 Honda Civic EG w/B16A Conversion to the Raw Racing boys
6 bicycles because, you know, global warming and all

There is no reason a logbook wouldn't be issued to a car that met safety standards.
GrD is a western only class and those cars get logbooks.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
Morison
There is no reason a logbook wouldn't be issued to a car that met safety standards.
GrD is a western only class and those cars get logbooks.

Yes, answered by Keith and confirmed by a text I just received from Paul Westwick. Class entered is declared event by event in the logbook so no worries.

-Tony

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2015 Subaru WRX
Traded the Audi for the above
Sold the 1993 Honda Civic EG w/B16A Conversion to the Raw Racing boys
6 bicycles because, you know, global warming and all

So someone could build a 2013 Shelby GT500 and get it log booked by CARS but just couldn't compete in any CARS sanctioned events?

An extreme sample, I agree!

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RWD4ME
So someone could build a 2013 Shelby GT500 and get it log booked by CARS but just couldn't compete in any CARS sanctioned events?

An extreme sample, I agree!

Yeah, and you should do it.

Or just ask the question about what car you should build a few more times.

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Grant Hughes

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RWD4ME
So someone could build a 2013 Shelby GT500 and get it log booked by CARS but just couldn't compete in any CARS sanctioned events?

An extreme sample, I agree!

I can give you an even more extreme example if you like

Lets say someone shows up with a current Bugatti Veyron and demands a logbook. There is no reason for the regional tech inspectors to refuse the request. The real fun starts when that same Bugatti shows up at tech at a CARS national with a fully paid entry. There is nothing about the class definitions in the CARS GCRs, only the NRRs. Provided that the Bugatti in question complies with all the safety requirements and is happy to run outside the class points structure who is to say 'No, your entry is excluded from competing"?

(Steps back and lets the logic trap snap closed...)

-Tony

---

2015 Subaru WRX
Traded the Audi for the above
Sold the 1993 Honda Civic EG w/B16A Conversion to the Raw Racing boys
6 bicycles because, you know, global warming and all

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NoCoast

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RWD4ME
So someone could build a 2013 Shelby GT500 and get it log booked by CARS but just couldn't compete in any CARS sanctioned events?

An extreme sample, I agree!

Yeah, and you should do it.

Or just ask the question about what car you should build a few more times.

Grant what gives you the idea that I'm thinking of building a car?

I have no plans to do so.

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RWD4ME
Grant what gives you the idea that I'm thinking of building a car?
I have no plans to do so.

The two threads that seem to be focused on just that. Maybe the part in the other one where you say, "what RWD car would make a good rally car." or something along that line...

Or are you planning to pay someone else to build you a rally car. Technically, I still consider that building a car myself, even if all you really are doing is writing a check.

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Grant Hughes

Neither a Veyron nor a GT500 would be eligible for a logbook as they aren't eligible for any class of competition under CARS.
Gr5 max displacement is adjusted 5100cc, which means 3000cc forced induction, the Shelby is 5800cc and supercharged.
The Bugatti is over four times the max displacement for AWD classes.

Interestingly, the GT500 might be considered legal to run in 2015 according to this rule from the 2013 book:

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12.6.1.1 (Effective January 1, 2015)
2WD vehicles with engine displacement greater than permitted in 12.6.2.1 and/or forced induction air inlet orifices greater than permitted in 12.6.3 will be allowed to compete at national rallies however will be classified as Open class vehicles. These vehicles must comply with all other aspects of the Open 2WD regulations (ie NRR 12.6.4 to 12.6.6) to be eligible. See NRR 12.5.1.2.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
Morison
Neither a Veyron nor a GT500 would be eligible for a logbook as they aren't eligible for any class of competition under CARS.
Gr5 max displacement is adjusted 5100cc, which means 3000cc forced induction, the Shelby is 5800cc and supercharged.
The Bugatti is over four times the max displacement for AWD classes.

Interestingly, the GT500 might be considered legal to run in 2015 according to this rule from the 2013 book:

Quote

12.6.1.1 (Effective January 1, 2015)
2WD vehicles with engine displacement greater than permitted in 12.6.2.1 and/or forced induction air inlet orifices greater than permitted in 12.6.3 will be allowed to compete at national rallies however will be classified as Open class vehicles. These vehicles must comply with all other aspects of the Open 2WD regulations (ie NRR 12.6.4 to 12.6.6) to be eligible. See NRR 12.5.1.2.

Okay, so the GT500 might or might not be eligible for a logbook, based on 12.6.1.1. How does this affect the regions who might want to have alternative class definitions? I don't believe Group D was ever mentioned in the CARS rules but it certainly exists. Were these cars classified as Group 2 nationally? This is particularly relevant as RPM and Rallywest have recently voted to maintain Group 5 beyond 2014. Based on Keith's interpretation any prospective entries might not be permitted in CARS events. Perhaps I have this wrong...

Tony

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2015 Subaru WRX
Traded the Audi for the above
Sold the 1993 Honda Civic EG w/B16A Conversion to the Raw Racing boys
6 bicycles because, you know, global warming and all

I don't know, but if one got built and wasn't allowed to enter, I'd blame Keith.

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Grant Hughes