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frumby
+1 on JVL's post. Dude, you have a great car that has worked. It has power, gearbox, suspension, brakes, and other stuff that match up well with the bed cars out there right now. 6000 is pennies on the dollar for it, so keep it!

Speaking of, you should post some pics of your car and inspire me a little!!!

How'd you get a square beam? Arms too? I still am hopeful that I'll get one someday.

It's funny how the suggestion of having to do a day or two worth of work on the car in order to sell it for full asking price of $6k is enough to motivate me to not sell it. That and my whole plan to build a bunch of BMWs to fill the 2WD class and then show up with the Merkur and dominate and take home all the big prize purses can't happen if I sell the Merkur.

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Grant Hughes

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NoCoast
It's funny how the suggestion of having to do a day or two worth of work on the car in order to sell it for full asking price of $6k is enough to motivate me to not sell it. That and my whole plan to build a bunch of BMWs to fill the 2WD class and then show up with the Merkur and dominate and take home all the big prize purses can't happen if I sell the Merkur.

Build 'em all!

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NoCoast

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frumby
+1 on JVL's post. Dude, you have a great car that has worked. It has power, gearbox, suspension, brakes, and other stuff that match up well with the bed cars out there right now. 6000 is pennies on the dollar for it, so keep it!

Speaking of, you should post some pics of your car and inspire me a little!!!

How'd you get a square beam? Arms too? I still am hopeful that I'll get one someday.

It's funny how the suggestion of having to do a day or two worth of work on the car in order to sell it for full asking price of $6k is enough to motivate me to not sell it. That and my whole plan to build a bunch of BMWs to fill the 2WD class and then show up with the Merkur and dominate and take home all the big prize purses can't happen if I sell the Merkur.

I call CHEEKY MONKEY!!! I'm glad to see the race to conceptualize the next great 2wd cheater car is ON!

All joking aside, I am having a blast just following this discussion. I can't wait to see all these new 2wd cars chucking rocks up and down the rally calender. BUILD THEM ALL, indeed.

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2015 Subaru WRX
Traded the Audi for the above
Sold the 1993 Honda Civic EG w/B16A Conversion to the Raw Racing boys
6 bicycles because, you know, global warming and all

GT500 rally car. I HAVE to see this..LMAO.


But seriously. I need a square beam too. They are the unicorn part in the XR world.

I'm pretty sure Keith is hoarding them all in Alberta.

Or that William is busy building Subaru drag and time attack shit and not Merkur rear beams.

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Grant Hughes

THe new CARS class structure...

Generally speaking...

2.5L limit for NA and 2.0L for Turbo.

Ironic that Subaru makes a 2.5L engine, who else does?

I said it last year and I'll say it again, the changed rules seem to heavily influenced if not geared towards sole sponsorship. I personally think that if thats the case... it's pretty shitty to sell out to the manufacturers and leave the competitors in the lurch. After the manufacturers are gone, what's left? Oh yeah the competitors.

Someone else said it better than I can... the tail can't wag the dog (or something like that).

Is CARS a seel out to Subaru?

If yes, I hope it was worth it!

*snip!

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RWD4ME
it's pretty shitty to sell out

It's happened before.... Will again. We've been pissed about it in the past too. Those sponsorship dollars that were going to be the next Big Thing for rally came and went.... At the end of the day we are the same bunch of guys abusing our cars in the woods.

Hopefully those 'Running the show' don't screw it up for us such that we can't go have our fun in the woods. Hopefully one of us won't do something uber-stupid and be the end of rally.

We'll see.... We'll bitch about it.

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

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RWD4ME
I said it last year and I'll say it again, the changed rules seem to heavily influenced if not geared towards sole sponsorship. I personally think that if thats the case... it's pretty shitty to sell out to the manufacturers and leave the competitors in the lurch. After the manufacturers are gone, what's left? Oh yeah the competitors.

Don't know how many times I have to say it, the new rules were not made in an attempt to attract specific manufacturers to be involved.

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RWD4ME
Is CARS a seel out to Subaru?
If yes, I hope it was worth it!

Subaru has been a partner of the CRC for around 20 years.
In that time they have paid out significant money both in partnership to the series and to individual competitors through contingency programs. The flow of support does make it down to the events, which helps make events more affordable for everyone.
Interestingly, in that time they haven't asked, or hinted, for any rule changes to meet their agendas and when team drivers have been subject to penalties or sanctions Subaru has always supported CARS in enforcing the rules.
So yes, CARS has had a long partnership with Subaru (and Yokohama,) but the relationship is not even close to 'selling out.'

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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RWD4ME
Ironic that Subaru makes a 2.5L engine, who else does?

You're not very good at conspiracy theories are you?
The only cars with Subaru's 2.5l NA engine are AWD cars.
Their only 2wd car is a 2l.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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Morison

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RWD4ME
Ironic that Subaru makes a 2.5L engine, who else does?

You're not very good at conspiracy theories are you?
The only cars with Subaru's 2.5l NA engine are AWD cars.
Their only 2wd car is a 2l.

Not to be a dick, but given the number of ways that exist to convert the 5 speeds into FWD, or that 5 speed FWD transmissions exist, or that there's bellhousings to hook the engines to RWD transmissions now, that seems a pretty weak point to use to refute anything.

Of course, Ford makes a 2.5L Duratec too. Maybe the conspiracy guys are looking in the wrong direction.

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mekilljoydammit
Not to be a dick, but given the number of ways that exist to convert the 5 speeds into FWD, or that 5 speed FWD transmissions exist, or that there's bellhousings to hook the engines to RWD transmissions now, that seems a pretty weak point to use to refute anything.

If you accept the idea that a manufacturer will want to fundamentally change the drive layout of the cars they sell in order to win another trophy. Look at the offering from Subaru in terms of cars vs. the classes offered.

If you want to talk conspiracy theory - VW has a 2.5l 5 cyl...
Did we make the rules to specifically attract VW? Nope, not even remotely.
(our understanding is that engine's going away soon anyway)

Manufacturers are interested in winning championships. Ask yourself what it takes to win most of the championships in North America and look there for rules that cater to car companies. (I've talked with several car manufacturers and NONE of them have brought up the idea of adjusting the rules to fit their cars or expressed an expectation that it would happen.)

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

At its most basic level..rally is a fringe sport that hasn't enough interest, participation or financial clout to be anything other than of hobby interest. It should and needs to remain accessible and somewhat logical for the competitors and future participants. Writing rule sets for Ford or Sube or any manufacture is just plain ludicris and shouln't even be considered.

What exactly did CARS do? Well without the conspiracy theories they changed the basic formula the sport has survived with since its inception. They fucked the 2wd classes beyond ragged. They did this somewhat quietly, without conversation and consideration. The given reasons have been everything from reining in the phantom dominating G5 cars, equalizing competition, slowing the field, increasig affordability, allowments for future cars and a shoulder shrug with no valid reason.

What did CARS accomplish? Foremost a massive amount of confusion, which is still prevalent. They stopped a few in process cars builds, screwed a few car sales, pissed off a lot of people, changed their minds, partially changed the new rules a couple times, did a lot of finger pointing and denying and side stepping.

What didn't they do? Make sense. Seek adequate competitor input. Solve any problems. Improve the sport. Admit a mistake and stop.

Here's some solid facts. Aveo is a shitbox. Sonics are a shitbox. Turboed FWD1.3 anythings are a shitbox. They will never be the future of our sport nor regailed in motorsport history. Mustang is stronger than ever, Camaro, Impala SS, Challenger, Toybaru, new 240Z (?)...lots of powerful RWD platforms selling well to performance enthusiats and wannabees alike.

The future that rally needs to worry about is the number of entries and workers for next weeks event, not whatever wetdream some manufacture is designing for next year.

How about making everyone mount Wink mirrors and driving down the stage backwards? That'd slow things down and level the playing field...well as long as you put a limit on the number and size of panels in the mirrors...

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heymagic
At its most basic level..rally is a fringe sport that hasn't enough interest, participation or financial clout to be anything other than of hobby interest. It should and needs to remain accessible and somewhat logical for the competitors and future participants. Writing rule sets for Ford or Sube or any manufacture is just plain ludicris and shouln't even be considered.

What exactly did CARS do? Well without the conspiracy theories they changed the basic formula the sport has survived with since its inception. They fucked the 2wd classes beyond ragged. They did this somewhat quietly, without conversation and consideration. The given reasons have been everything from reining in the phantom dominating G5 cars, equalizing competition, slowing the field, increasig affordability, allowments for future cars and a shoulder shrug with no valid reason.

What did CARS accomplish? Foremost a massive amount of confusion, which is still prevalent. They stopped a few in process cars builds, screwed a few car sales, pissed off a lot of people, changed their minds, partially changed the new rules a couple times, did a lot of finger pointing and denying and side stepping.

What didn't they do? Make sense. Seek adequate competitor input. Solve any problems. Improve the sport. Admit a mistake and stop.

Here's some solid facts. Aveo is a shitbox. Sonics are a shitbox. Turboed FWD1.3 anythings are a shitbox. They will never be the future of our sport nor regailed in motorsport history. Mustang is stronger than ever, Camaro, Impala SS, Challenger, Toybaru, new 240Z (?)...lots of powerful RWD platforms selling well to performance enthusiats and wannabees alike.

The future that rally needs to worry about is the number of entries and workers for next weeks event, not whatever wetdream some manufacture is designing for next year.

How about making everyone mount Wink mirrors and driving down the stage backwards? That'd slow things down and level the playing field...well as long as you put a limit on the number and size of panels in the mirrors...

Pretty good summary of "the what" but the more enlightening thing is often to analyze the "the how" and maybe "the why".....so as to try to avoid such obviously pointless and self made blunders...

The "how" we've been fed some platitudes and boilerplate, and they "why" a bunch of vague shit.

Neither is convincing of anything..except the either confused nature of the problem in the "problem solvers" minds or worse, their deep and fundemental ignorance....which they have resisted with a confusing amount of vigor..

We ALL have plenty of stupid ideas. I have countless dumb ideas a day, fortunately I suspect my limited reasoning and check my ideas against things like 'precedent" and cost and often ask myself "why" I'm doing something stupid...

That part seems utterly absent..and if it's absent in the face of the most vigorous reaction I have ever seen since there have been forums in the late 90s then that means the 'decision makers" either are totally insulated, or possibly really really stupid.
It's impossible to figure which it is or if it's a horrible combination of the two..

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

What Gene said. Either there are hidden motives (conspiracy), or this group is not only poorly informed, but arrogant and stubborn. Bottom line is that the new rules are flat WRONG, accomplish nothing, destroy plenty. But they aren't listening. They don't answer emails, and they don't look here or elsewhere for input. Their ears are covered while the say lalalalala loudly enough that they can pretend they hear nothing but agreement.
I recently drove a rental V6 mustang for a month. Car was a piece of crap, but with a standard transmission, some tighter suspension and about nothing else it would be a fast car. You wouldn't need to change a thing on that v6 to have enough power on dirt.

for the most part, most "2.4l" engines are over the 2.400l mark anyway, so the rules allow up to a 2.5... YES subaru is one of very few that market their 2.4XX L as a 2.5..why? maybe they want it to sound bigger, why do some market as 2.4? maybe to sound like it"ll be better on fuel...

i can understand limiting the engine sizes as a safety concern. I.E. new vehicles ARE FAST AS HELL, with all the new computer controls, and over all technollogy, you can make the same power, if not more from a current 2.0 turbo, than the 2.5s back in the mid to late 90's... im 199% sure that subaru of america is, and has been running the JDM spec 2.0l turbo in their cars in RA for years.. not the 2.5l usdm ones.. look back at kennyblock and travis's cars specs.. they were 2.0L LONG BEFORE THESE RULE CHANGES

im not sure what l'estage runs in his evo.. cuz to be honest im not sure what mitsubichi puts in them.. but i know the make both a 2.4 and 2.0L engine thats offered in a wide range of cars.
nissan has a 2.5L
BMW has a 2.5L
ford makes a 2.5L durratek
then every one else makes a 2.4
chevy's 2.4l eco tek
honda's 2.4l
hundia
lots more but thats what i came up with in 30 or so seconds.


HARDLY SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE TRYING TO SELL OUT TO ONLY SUBARU WHEN YA PUT ABOUT 30 SECONDS OF THOUGHT INTO IT.

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I be sorry as a muthafucka I did, still sorry I did n' hustled ta peep what tha fuck I holla'd a lil' bit better, or at least try to.