LMS: Updating old (grandfathered) cages

(that's short for 'Learn Me Some' don'tca know...)

Suppose I've got a car with an old logbook.
Could be pre-2008 Rally-America, could be SCCA, or mebbe even an old NRS logbook.
Maybe the main cage tubes are smaller than 1.75x095, or who knows...
Bottom line: the cage doesn't conform to the CURRENT cage rules.

If I want to add bars (maybe the bars from the top of the a-pillar straight down to the floor, or more door bars, or more cross-braces), what do I need to do?
* Just add new bars in a size that would conform to the old rules?
* Just add new bars in a size that conforms to the new rules?
* Cut the whole thing out and start over?

If I want to replace some of the existing bars, what do I need to do?
* Remove the particular old bars, an replace them with a size that would conform to the old rules?
* Remove the particular old bars, an replace them with a size that would conform to the new rules?
* Cut the whole thing out and start over?

Regardless of what the answer is, I assume the car will either need to see a scrutineer before it's next event, or get a little extra scrutiny in tech at the next event? (And, with either option, a note in the logbook?)

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KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

Lots of questions that the answers will vary with specific circumstances. Very old cages , pre 2007 may be allowed. They need the Appendix 1 test. That is the last configuration SCCA allowed. If the cage doesn't meet that it will need updated to that or beyond. If the cage is really iffy it will need total replacement. No one solid answer for all. You can update an old cage, add door bars, roof bars, A pillar bars etc. The sizes will depend on the current cage and car. I'd need specific info. All work will need approval by a scrutineer at some point.

ah, forgot to mention - the hypothetical car(s) in question are currently legal, having run events (including RA nationals) in the 2010-2012 timeframe.

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KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

Currently allowed cage. Replace old bars with the same spec. Adding new bars should be similar. Most of the additional bars such as A pillar support can be 1.5 anyway. You can add some new bars without updating all of them.

Basically it is a common sense procedure. Is the repair/change going to make things better or worser? You are welcome to send me pics or an email if you want.

Ok, thanks. I'm just shopping right now, but wanted to understand a bit better.

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KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

If you find something let me know before you pay. I'll be more than happy to look at pics and help you with that stuff. Biggest things I've seen with old cages are crappy or incomplete welds. Usually the basics are fine, just the details are lacking so to speak.

Gene, this reminds me of our meet up at Mt Hood 2009.

Speaking of grandpappy, hey Slowpoke, what ever happened to Old Yeller?

I assume you're not removing the basic structure to the old SCCA grandfathered spec? So pretty much the main hoop, diagonal, sill bar, a-pillar and rear stays will be original and you might be re-doing door bars or remove a single diagonal and add an X to the roof say? Because removing them would really be modification of what gave the car an original logbook and constitute a re-book.

But addition to the original cage you need to do nothing else really. The bars weren't required so make them however size you want really. Ideally, make them 1.5 x 0.095 at least though. In my old GTI, I had a door X added, main hoop to a-pillar supports, roof diagonal and a rear shock support.

To bring the Citation(SCCA Logbook) up to spec, I found Hurst at 100AW 3-4 years ago and said "Where do you want me to put bars?" Ended up with doorbars and a midline V in the main hoop. Appendix 1 stuff, though it seems Appendix 1 doesn't exist anymore? Sort of like "Go up there about a mile, turn left where the Johnsons barn used to be. "


Biggest thing with old rally cars: You HAVE TO HAVE THE LOGBOOK. No Logbook=scrap metal. you won't get a new book for an old car.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2013 07:55PM by bknblk2.

Appendix 1 can still be found by going to RA's new site and hunting around in their rules archives for the 2007 rulebook. It's at the end of that.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

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bknblk2
To bring the Citation(SCCA Logbook) up to spec, I found Hurst at 100AW 3-4 years ago and said "Where do you want me to put bars?" Ended up with doorbars and a midline V in the main hoop. Appendix 1 stuff, though it seems Appendix 1 doesn't exist anymore? Sort of like "Go up there about a mile, turn left where the Johnsons barn used to be. "


Biggest thing with old rally cars: You HAVE TO HAVE THE LOGBOOK. No Logbook=scrap metal. you won't get a new book for an old car.

Not really an accurate statement. Depends on the situation, the car and its history.

Gene, I have Old Yeller, brought it back with me after dropping off the XR with Dave. I have decided to not bask in the glory that is the epicness of rallying a purely viceral machine and pass it on down the road. I am delivering it to the Portland area tomorrow.

I have decided to never be in the position to blame the car. It will always be my driving that is holding me back.

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phlat65

I have decided to never be in the position to blame the car. It will always be my driving that is holding me back.

Agree to disagree. ALWAYS blame the car. Although, for me, this will now require much more eloquence and bullshit than it used to.

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Slowwpoke

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phlat65

I have decided to never be in the position to blame the car. It will always be my driving that is holding me back.

Agree to disagree. ALWAYS blame the car. Although, for me, this will now require much more eloquence and bullshit than it used to.

FOR YOU!
You'll be smiling so much you won't care how you do....and thereby you will probably achieve enlightenment.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
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