An Open letter to should be forwarded to our masters

For a long time I've felt that the best action in rally that I can think of has been found in what we call in English "F-Cup", the enormously popular and spactactular 2wd class in Finland for normal aspirated cars.
Hundreds and hundreds of well built cars driven with vigor unseen in this Continent and big entry fields year in and year out...
So popular is it that a number of WRC drivers build cars and go play with the locals..

For those unfamiliar they have their own "TV Channel"
http://www.youtube.com/user/fcupTV

Let's look at it a little:
From Finnish Wiki:

Quote

F-ryhmä
Loikkaa: valikkoon, hakuun

F-ryhmä on Suomessa ajettava ralliluokka kaksivetoisille ja ilman turboa toimiville autoille, joiden kansainvälinen luokitus on päättynyt. F-ryhmään tulee jatkuvasti uutta kalustoa, kun auton kansainvälinen luokitus on voimassa seitsemän vuotta sen valmistuksen päättymisestä.
Sisällysluettelo

1 F-Cup
1.1 F-Cupin osakilpailut 2008
1.2 F-cupin osakilpailut 2009
2 Kalusto
3 Aiheesta muualla

F-Cup

F-ryhmä on suosittu luokka, sillä Suomessa on paljon kaksivetoista kilpailukalustoa, jolta on kansainvälinen luokitus vanhentunut, ja F-ryhmälle oli tarvetta. Ensimmäistä kertaa Suomessa ajettiin F-ryhmän autoilla kilpaa vuonna 1990. Seuraavana vuonna perustivat Heikki Poranen ja Pentti Tarkkala F-ryhmälle oman rallisarjan, F-Cupin. Ensimmäisen F-Cupin osakilpailun järjestäjä oli Hyrylän Ua.

F-Cupin pisteistä kilpaillaan yleisen ja juniorien sarjoissa sekä kahdessa kuutiotilavuusluokassa: yli- ja alle 1 600-kuutioisissa. F-ryhmä onkin osanottajamäärällä mitattuna Suomen suosituin rallisarja, ja ajotyyli on usein hyvinkin näyttävää kaksivetoisilla, ja siksi rallit ovat myös yleisön suosiossa. Vuosittain järjestetään kuusi F-Cupin kisaa. F-Cupin rallit ovat "pimeitä", eli kilpailut ajetaan ilman nuotteja.

Neste-rallin yhteydessä on järjestetty perinteisesti F-ryhmän autoille Vetomies-kilpailu. Kisa ei kuulu F-Cupiin, ja sarjan kisoista poiketen käytössä ovat myös nuotit.
F-Cupin osakilpailut 2008

19. tammikuuta, ValUA Talviralli, Valkealan UA
9. helmikuuta, Laihia Ralli, Laihian UA
8. maaliskuuta, Waltikka Ralli, Valkeakoski Motorsport
23. elokuuta, Autoluojus Ralli, Satakunann UA
13. syyskuuta, Neste Jari-Pekka ralli, Heinolan UA
4. lokakuuta, Nuutajärven Lasi-ralli, Urjalan UA

F-cupin osakilpailut 2009

7. helmikuuta, Kiinteistömaailma-ralli Mäntsälä, Mäntsälän MK
28. helmikuuta, Volkswagen-ralli, Kiikoisten AS
14. maaliskuuta, Jyväskylän Talviralli, Jyväskylän UA
16. toukokuuta, Uusikaupunki-ralli, Turun MS
15. elokuuta, Autoluojus-ralli, Satakunnan UA
12. syyskuuta, Neste Jari-Pekka ralli, Heinolan UA

Kalusto

Alkujaan F-ryhmä perustettiin harrasteluokaksi, jossa kustannukset pyrittiin pitämään kohtuullisina. Sittemmin kustannukset ovat vähitellen nousseet, mutta se ei ole vaikuttanut kilpailijamäärään kielteisesti. Kalleimpien autojen hinnat F-ryhmässä ovat liki 100 000 euroa, mutta myös alle 10 000 euron hintaisella kalustolla voi hyvin kilpailla.

F-ryhmän alkuvuosina menestyivät parhaiten Ford Escort RS 2000:t sekä Toyota Starletit. Myöhempinä vuosina menestystä on saavutettu Opel Kadetteilla ja Toyota Corolla GT:illä. Viime vuosina myös yli 1 600-kuutioisten luokassa on pärjätty hyvin BMW M3 -mallilla. Muita, hieman harvinaisempia autoja ovat Honda Civic, Volvo 240 ja Mercedez-Benz 190.
Aiheesta muualla

F-ryhmä jatkaa elinvoimaisena, Autourheilu.fi
F-cup

Now its well known that nobody can possibly read Finnish, and any way it's more than 90% drunken swearng anyway which may explain why after many years working side by side every day with those guys, and a few years of getting crushed on race tracks around Europe the only thing I can do is count to 3 and swear.

So machine translation, with some corrections of the wierd words

Quote

F-Group
Jump to: navigation, search

F-Group in Finland is run rally in two 2WD class-driven and without turbo cars operating when International classification has ended.( Expired FIA Homologation) F-group will continue the new equipment, the car's international classification is valid for seven years from the end of manufacture.
Table of contents

1 F-Cup
1.1 F-Cup races of 2008
1.2 F-Cup races of 2009
2 Equipments
3 External links

F-Cup

F-group is a popular class, because there are many 2WD competition equipment, for which an international rating is out of date, and the F-group there was a need.

For the first time in Finland in Group F were driven car race in 1990. The following year, founded by Heikki Pentti Tarkkala Poranen and F-group of their own racing series, F-Cup. The first F-Cup championships, was Hyrylän Ua.

F-Cup competition for the overall points and junior classes, as well as two cubic volume range: over-and under 1 600-cc.
F-Group is in terms of participation Finland's most popular racing series, and the driving style is often very impressive two-wheel, and that's why rallies are also popular with the public.
Are held each year with six F-Cup race. F-Cup rallies are "dark", (blind--Route book only) ie the competitions are run without sheet music. ("notes" of any kind)

Neste Rally is organized in the context of the traditional F-group cars a sporting competition. The race is not part of the F-Cup, and a series of races unlike in use are also the notes.
F-Cup races of 2008

19. january, drain Winter Rally, Valkeala UA
9. February, Laihia Rally, Laihian UA
8. March, Rally Waltikka, Valkeakoski Motor Sport
23. August, Autoluojus Rally, Satakunann UA
13. September, Neste Jari-Pekka rally, Heinola UA
4. October, Nuutajärvi Glass-rally, Urjalan UA

F-Cup races of 2009

7. February, Realty World Rally Mäntsälä, Mäntsälän MK
28. February, Volkswagen Rally, Kiikoinen AS
14. March, Jyväskylä Winter Rally, Jyväskylä UA
16. May, Uusikaupunki Rally, Turku, MS
15. August, Autoluojus Rally, Satakunnan UA
12. September, Neste Jari-Pekka rally, Heinola UA

Stock

Initially, the F-group was set up harrasteluokaksi, (what?) which aimed to keep costs reasonable.
Since then, the cost has risen gradually, but it has not affected the number of competitors in the negative. The most expensive cars in the F-group rates are close to 100 000, but less than 10 000 euro-priced equipment may well compete.

F-Group in the early years the most successful car was Ford Escort RS 2000's, as well as Toyota Starlet. In later years, success has been achieved Kadetteilla Opel and Toyota Corolla GT subjects. In recent years, in the over 1600 cc class have managed well the BMW M3 model.
Other, slightly less common cars are Honda Civic, Volvo 240 and Mercedez-Benz 190
External links

F-Group to remain a viable, Autourheilu.fi
F-cup

So over there there is a thriving, exciting grass roots series and around 85-55% of all the cars are in this class, which to a guys with strong IWW tendencies warms my heart, cause I believe, in life like in rally, in One Big Union.
There's Power in a Union. (cue music)

And it would hard for a collection of guys in some "you got a pulse? great, you'll do" type comittee to ignore One Big Class--or to on some whim, fuck with it.

So lets look at what they have for the main rules or limitations:
http://www.f-cup.fi/

NOTE, having trouble re-finding their Technical rules, it is impossible to read so I'll be back in a bit

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

http://www.rallyrace.net/docs/group_f/f-group_final.htm I know it's not the current version of the regs, but it's something.

I wish we would do F Cup over here, I think it would really work. Trouble is by the time it made it to a finalized form it would get all fucked up and Americanized and miss the point.

One of the major stumbling blocks I see is that there's just not enough spectators to push all the wrecked cars off the road before the next car comes through and the organizers would never let them do it anyway.

Quote
mekilljoydammit
http://www.rallyrace.net/docs/group_f/f-group_final.htm I know it's not the current version of the regs, but it's something.

Yeah good, the key thing being the very inclusive bit here, and the bit that needs to be transmitted to all the "descision makers"

max cc......................max. 2 valves /cylinder........over 2 valves /cylinder
1000...............................670 kg..............................720 kg
1400...............................800 kg..............................840 kg
1600...............................850 kg..............................920 kg
2000...............................930 kg.............................1000 kg
2200...............................970 kg.............................1030 kg
2500.............................1030 kg.............................1080 kg
3000.............................1110 kg.............................1150 kg

Now there was years of talk before this was published here, years of enthousiam over the idea, even a whole separate sub forum on SS.com---some say to ghettoize it, keep it out of the Front page and active discussion just because it was so much interest and excitment and contrary to the fantasies of the principles who owned and controlled SS.com.

So popular that the concept in half-spirit was adopted by Rally-Americar after they fucked with it because they, with a few cars entering, know better than those gawddamn furriners speaking an incomprehensible language.

So this central simple element, very inclusive, giving a guy with a 16v 1600 a feeling he has a chance against a hot 2350cc car, THIS need somehow to be hammered into the heads of the folks who obviously know nothing, and don't see past the edge of the desolate falt dreary prairies that are stuck in---on both sides of the border....emptiness is a state of mind , of what is inside the head, after all.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

harrasteluokaksi = harraste luokaksi = a category for amateurs

---

Kirk Coughlin
Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI

Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.

So you're saying adopt GrF and don't fuck with it since the Finns know more?
In otherwords (from the rules posted)

- "Only group 1,2 or A homologated cars are allowed."
- "Charging of inlet air is forbidden and a charger can be removed. Intake system is free."
- "Only factory-made suspension links designed for that particular model can be used with the car" (I don't think the JVAB 'factory' counts)

So what happens to the 2.1l volvo turbos or the 2.3l Turbo Xr4Tis, 3.2l Porsches or 5l Mustangs?

OK, the current rules may be a bit more relaxed that what was linked to, but are turbos still banned?

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2013 04:08PM by Morison.

Quote
Morison
So you're saying adopt GrF and don't fuck with it since the Finns know more?
In otherwords (from the rules posted)

- "Only group 1,2 or A homologated cars are allowed."
- "Charging of inlet air is forbidden and a charger can be removed. Intake system is free."
- "Only factory-made suspension links designed for that particular model can be used with the car" (I don't think the JVAB 'factory' counts)

So what happens to the 2.1l volvo turbos or the 2.3l Turbo Xr4Tis, 3.2l Porsches or 5l Mustangs?

OK, the current rules may be a bit more relaxed that what was linked to, but are turbos still banned?

Whadda you care?
You're troll-fu is strong.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Whadda you care?
You're troll-fu is strong.

Actually, I'm genuinely interested, it is a genuine question.
Do the current F-Cup rules still ban turbos?

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

i love your ideas of using eruo stuff to solve american problems, john, but one problem i never see addressed is logistics.. and its not just you.. it happens at all levels of issues... even politics... and B4 you get heated, and argue with me.. im not dismissing what your saying, im agreeing with how awesome the F-group is... just not sure how to implement it on a national scale...

quick geography lesson from the interwebz:

The USA.. aka "Merrika" is the 3 rd largest county in the world based on land mass.

finland is the worlds 64th largest country: Finland's total area is 337,030 km2 (130,128 sq mi). Of this area 10% is water, 69% forest, 8% cultivated land and 13% other. Finland has a population of 5.5 million.

LETS just compare the pacific northwest:

YOUR WASHINGTON STATE: Washington covers 71,303 square miles, making it the 18th largest of the 50 states. Washington population, 2012 estimate 6,897,012

OREGON: Oregon covers 98,386 square miles, making it the 9th largest of the 50 states.Oregon Population, 2012 estimate 3,899,353

finland is smaller then the 2 states combined, and has roughly half the population of the 2 combined.


OR compare MN
minnesota, where im from, (and where RA called home) Minnesota Land area in square miles, 79,626.74, population, 5,379,139
FINLAND is 1.5 our size and same rough population

now in reading your first post, you said "Hundreds and hundreds of well built cars driven with vigor unseen in this Continent and big entry fields year in and year out..."
thats awesome that they get that many cars to an event.

when was the last time any event in the US had over even 100 entrants?

I know the pacific NW has a large community of rally-ers, and some of the best roads, and more stage rally events per year, yet even with some people traveling 2000 miles you cant get a 200 car feild, much less in one class...

in MN we have 5 different 1 day events.. the small one, "nemadji trail" is a 1 road, event, run 4 times in 1 day, for less than 50 total stage miles, that event runs 3 times a year, but its 3 hours from our metropolitan area, Ojibwe trail has been split into 2 separate days, in 2 separate months since it came off the national event list, and is about 4 hours from the twin cities. our only good roads are far away, and the best are unfortunately in state parks/ forests...so not a chance to rally them cuz of all the "protect wildlife" twats.... we are lucky to have 40 entrants in any of these events, there is little to no prize $$, we can even get in-state news coverage..

im guessing the Finnish rally season has more then 5 events, and way more than 250 total stage miles a year. we know it has its own channel, and im guessing there are some prizes to be had...

i think the key to getting entrants, in all rally, not just 1 class is to have more frequent events in a smaller area, the RA has 3 regions, Nasa has pretty much 2, cuz they do almost nothing in the central area of the country.

this whole "national rally" idea has got to go.. its not working.. we need state level rally clubs, and more events in those clubs to start happening, b4 we will ever see 100, or 200 entrants into a national event...

finnland rally has a pride about it.. nobody here cares that England's dave higgins wins RA in with a 1/2 billion $$ team, there is no pride for me in that, is there for you..? he's not my neighbor, not from my state, he isnt from our country.. nor is lestage, how is someone supposed to find pride in a national serries that the top teams and drivers arent just not local.. they are not even from this nation.. hell we barely have home town pride any more in this country..

ok, so long long long rant.. i had a point, then got side tracked.. ohh yes.. here in america we rally for fun, over there its for pride of country.. and unfortunately our national events cover so much area, its logistically infeasible to get the exposure they get.. or sumthin..

---

I be sorry as a muthafucka I did, still sorry I did n' hustled ta peep what tha fuck I holla'd a lil' bit better, or at least try to.

Logistics is the main issue. I do like how RA moved the central regional scoring to just Sno*Drift, 100AW, LSPR. Although I just learned about this at the awards ceremony for 100AW...

But as far as cars/classes. It needs to be simple, reliable, competitive FWD cars. I would run a production class car if they allowed final drives to be changed out. Really that's what most G2 cars are, just slightly modified P class cars. Most are all running some sort of stock suspension bits, nothing super fancy, maybe a final drive. I really think rally B-spec should allow final drives and it would be a perfect class to run.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
mekilljoydammit
http://www.rallyrace.net/docs/group_f/f-group_final.htm I know it's not the current version of the regs, but it's something.

Yeah good, the key thing being the very inclusive bit here, and the bit that needs to be transmitted to all the "descision makers"

max cc......................max. 2 valves /cylinder........over 2 valves /cylinder
1000...............................670 kg..............................720 kg
1400...............................800 kg..............................840 kg
1600...............................850 kg..............................920 kg
2000...............................930 kg.............................1000 kg
2200...............................970 kg.............................1030 kg
2500.............................1030 kg.............................1080 kg
3000.............................1110 kg.............................1150 kg

I still think these weight limits, while obtainable, are WAY too cost prohibitive to get to. To get my 1.6L Civic to ~2000lbs (920kg) I need to gut the fuck out of everything and run carbon fiber everything. Sure, the solution is to just put a larger engine in my car, but even then a 2.2L is still 2266lbs.

Quote
BillyElliot
Logistics is the main issue. I do like how RA moved the central regional scoring to just Sno*Drift, 100AW, LSPR. Although I just learned about this at the awards ceremony for 100AW...

But as far as cars/classes. It needs to be simple, reliable, competitive FWD cars. I would run a production class car if they allowed final drives to be changed out. Really that's what most G2 cars are, just slightly modified P class cars. Most are all running some sort of stock suspension bits, nothing super fancy, maybe a final drive. I really think rally B-spec should allow final drives and it would be a perfect class to run.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
mekilljoydammit
http://www.rallyrace.net/docs/group_f/f-group_final.htm I know it's not the current version of the regs, but it's something.

Yeah good, the key thing being the very inclusive bit here, and the bit that needs to be transmitted to all the "descision makers"

max cc......................max. 2 valves /cylinder........over 2 valves /cylinder
1000...............................670 kg..............................720 kg
1400...............................800 kg..............................840 kg
1600...............................850 kg..............................920 kg
2000...............................930 kg.............................1000 kg
2200...............................970 kg.............................1030 kg
2500.............................1030 kg.............................1080 kg
3000.............................1110 kg.............................1150 kg

I still think these weight limits, while obtainable, are WAY too cost prohibitive to get to. To get my 1.6L Civic to ~2000lbs (920kg) I need to gut the fuck out of everything and run carbon fiber everything. Sure, the solution is to just put a larger engine in my car, but even then a 2.2L is still 2266lbs.

i think those are MINIMUM weights... you can always be heavy and under powered...

---

I be sorry as a muthafucka I did, still sorry I did n' hustled ta peep what tha fuck I holla'd a lil' bit better, or at least try to.

Quote
mke723
i love your ideas of using eruo stuff to solve american problems, john, but one problem i never see addressed is logistics.. and its not just you.. it happens at all levels of issues... even politics... and B4 you get heated, and argue with me.. im not dismissing what your saying, im agreeing with how awesome the F-group is... just not sure how to implement it on a national scale...

Mike I have alwaysd, since I was maybe 15, looked at "what works" where ever I could find that...
When I went to ---and help lay out and set up, all on crutches by the way---the first ever International moto-cross here in the PNW, and saw ALL the Europeans lap ALL of the Americans 3 times in 30 minutes, I thought "Hmmmmmmmmmm, whatever we're doing ain't workin so hot and whatever THEY're doing seems to be working an awful lt better"
Same mud, some snow, same bikes same tires, but what they DID---and the results, massively different..

My solution a couple of years later of beating a lot of people here far too easily (just by standing up and trying to use the front brake some) was to move there and subsume myself in their club scene and do what they did..
Work for riding, worked for condition training, worked for working and I learned a fascinating principle: even if you don't understand everything perfectly, if you do the right thing, the results follow...regardless of thinking....

So, aside from a very few people here who are furriners who did race or rally in places where rally--in this case---is popular, I would bet that I understand the fact that "this ain't there" more profoundly than most...

But that doesn't mean we can't analyze "what's similar and what's different, what can we compare and what can we contrast?"
Its questioning and suggesting, not stating anything with certainty...

Quote

quick geography lesson from the interwebz:

The USA.. aka "Merrika" is the 3 rd largest county in the world based on land mass.

finland is the worlds 64th largest country: Finland's total area is 337,030 km2 (130,128 sq mi). Of this area 10% is water, 69% forest, 8% cultivated land and 13% other. Finland has a population of 5.5 million.

Yep their population has shot up in the last 35 years by over a million and a half..
Where'd did they all come from?

Quote

LETS just compare the pacific northwest:

YOUR WASHINGTON STATE: Washington covers 71,303 square miles, making it the 18th largest of the 50 states. Washington population, 2012 estimate 6,897,012

Yeah but less than half is populated by civilised peoples.

Quote

OREGON: Oregon covers 98,386 square miles, making it the 9th largest of the 50 states.Oregon Population, 2012 estimate 3,899,353

Ever worse in oregon, maybe 25% is settled the rest is spiritual and moral and literal wasteland.

Quote

finland is smaller then the 2 states combined, and has roughly half the population of the 2 combined.

But the population densisty is extremely low

Quote

OR compare MN
minnesota, where im from, (and where RA called home) Minnesota Land area in square miles, 79,626.74, population, 5,379,139
FINLAND is 1.5 our size and same rough population

Quote

now in reading your first post, you said "Hundreds and hundreds of well built cars driven with vigor unseen in this Continent and big entry fields year in and year out..."
thats awesome that they get that many cars to an event.

when was the last time any event in the US had over even 100 entrants?

When--10 years ago or more.
The "why" is better to examine, tho.

I know the pacific NW has a large community of rally-ers, and some of the best roads, and more stage rally events per year, yet even with some people traveling 2000 miles you cant get a 200 car feild, much less in one class...

in MN we have 5 different 1 day events.. the small one, "nemadji trail" is a 1 road, event, run 4 times in 1 day, for less than 50 total stage miles, that event runs 3 times a year, but its 3 hours from our metropolitan area, Ojibwe trail has been split into 2 separate days, in 2 separate months since it came off the national event list, and is about 4 hours from the twin cities. our only good roads are far away, and the best are unfortunately in state parks/ forests...so not a chance to rally them cuz of all the "protect wildlife" twats.... we are lucky to have 40 entrants in any of these events, there is little to no prize $$, we can even get in-state news coverage..
im guessing the Finnish rally season has more then 5 events, and way more than 250 total stage miles a year. we know it has its own channel, and im guessing there are some prizes to be had...

Ok: SM
FRC Events 2013

25.-26.1. Arctic Lapland Rally, Rovaniemi
22.-23.2. SM Vaakuna Ralli, Mikkeli
9.3. SM Itäralli, Joensuu
15.6. SM Pohjanmaa-ralli
12.-13.7. SM O.K. Auto-Ralli, Kouvola
30.-31.8. SM-ralli, Turku
27.-28.9. SM Castrol-Ralli, Tampere

F-Cup ja F 4WD
kilpailu päivämäärä järjestäjä
1. Ramirent Mäntsälä ralli 19.01. Mäntsälän MK
2. Jämsä ralli 09.02. AUK Jämsän Äijät ry
3. Salpausselkäralli 02.03. Lahden UA
4. Uusikaupunki ralli 07.09. Turun Moottoriseura
5. Nuutajärven Lasiralli 21.09. Urjalan UA
6. Rantaralli 12.10. Naantalin Seudun UA

This is the whole calender for car racing in that little tiny country:
http://www.autourheilu.fi/kilpailukalenteri/2013/

here's a quick purge of all but rally and rallysprints
Kilpailukalenteri 2013
<sub>Aika Nimi Laji Taso Alue Järjestäjä
2.-3.3.13 50. Pohjola-ralli, Oulu Ralli HRT 1 OULUN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT RY
2.-3.3.13 Hygienialinkki.com Ralli, Lahti Ralli F-Cup 6 LAHDEN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT
2.-3.3.13 JM-Talvimestaruus, Ähtäri JM K 2 ÄHTÄRIN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT
3.3.13 1. Ampias Rallispecial, Turku Ralli Rallispecial 7 TURUN MOOTTORISEURA RY
URHEILUAUTOILIJAT
3.3.13 XXI Keuruu Rallisprint RS K 4 KEURUUN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT

9.3.13 Neste Kuortane Rallispecial Ralli Rallispecial 2 KUORTANEEN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT
9.3.13 Peurunka Ralli, Laukaa Ralli Pienoisralli 4 LAUKAAN MOOTTORIMIEHET RY
9.3.13 Pienoisralli, Kyrö Ralli Pienoisralli 7 KYRÖN SEUDUN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT
9.3.13 Seurakilpailu, Urjala Ralli seurak. 5 URJALAN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT
9.3.13 SM Itäralli, Joensuu Ralli SM 3 JOENSUUN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT
PA SM 7 AUTOTEHTAAN AUTOKERHO/UA
16.3.13 Suopunkiralli, Kemijärvi Ralli K 1 ROVANIEMEN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT RY.AT

5.5.13 Rallisprint Nurmijärvi RS Cup 8 NURMIJÄRVEN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT

URHEILUAUTOILIJATAUTOURHEILUKERHO
18.5.13 Black Rocket Ralli, Tervakoski Ralli Pienoisralli 8 TERVAKOSKEN URHEILUAUTOILIJATURHEILUAUTOILIJAT
18.5.13 Kauhajoki Rallisprint 1 RS Cup 2 KAUHAJOEN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT
MOOTTORIKERHO/UA


19.5.13 Kauhajoki Rallisprint 2 RS Cup 2 KAUHAJOEN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT

19.5.13 Vantaa Rallispecial Ralli Rallispecial 8 UUDENMAAN AUTOURHELIJAT

AUTOURHEILIJAT
25.5.13 Ovisepät Ralli, Jyväskylä Ralli RSJM, NSM, K 4 JYVÄSKYLÄN URHEILUAUTOILIJA RY
URHEILUAUTOILIJAT

15.6.13 Pohjanmaa SM-Ralli, Laihia Ralli SM 2 Pohjanmaa Ralli Ry
SPORTBILISTER

29.6.13 Jyväskylän Suurajot Ralli Pienoisralli 4 AL JYVÄSKYLÄN OSASTO

29.6.13 Vanajanlinna Rallisprint 2, Hämeenlinna RS Cup 5 Ilm. Myöhemmin
30.6.13 Jalasjärven XXI Rallisprint RS K 2 JALASJÄRVEN MOOTTORIKERHO/UA


6.7.13 Sastamala Ralli Ralli K 7 SASTAMALAN AUTOURHEILIJAT RY
6.7.13 Tornion Asfalttisprint RS K 1 TORNION URHEILUAUTOILIJAT
13.7.13 4. Meri-Lappi JM JM K 1 MERILAPIN MOOTTORIKERHO

13.7.13 Happy Beach Asfalttisprint RS K 1 ROKUAN RAKETIT


13.7.13 Rallicross SM, Honkajoki RC, crosskart SM 7 NOORMARKUN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT/MK
13.7.13 SM O.K. Auto-ralli, Kouvola Ralli SM 6 KOUVOLAN SEUDUN AUTOURHEILIJAT


20.7.13 SM Asfalttisprint, Parkano RS SM 5 PARKANON URHEILUAUTOILIJAT

27.7.13 3. OUA Asfalttisprint, Oulu RS K 1 OULUN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT RY
27.7.13 Eckerö Linjen Sprint, Maarianhamina RS K 7 ÅLANDS MOTORKLUBB

31.7.-4.8.13 Neste Oil Rally Finland, Jyväskylä Ralli MM KV AKK Sports Oy

8.-10.8.13 Lahti Historic Rally Ralli EM, HRT 6 POPPOO TEAM
T


17.8.13 50.v Juhlaralli, Imatra Ralli Pienoisralli 6 IMATRAN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT


24.8.13 Mänttä 200-ajo Ralli HRT 5 EUROPEAN SPEED AND RALLY CLUB

30.8.13 Levi Rallisprint 1, Kittilä RS Cup 1 ROVANIEMEN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT RY.
30.-31.8.13 SM Ralli, Turku Ralli SM 7 TURUN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT

31.8.13 Levi Rallisprint 2, Kittilä RS Cup 1 ROVANIEMEN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT RY.
31.8.13 Orimattila Ralli Ralli Pienoisralli 6 ORIMATTILAN UA



7.9.13 Nilsiä SM-Rallisprint RS SM 3 NILSIÄN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT RY
7.9.13 Uusikaupunkiralli Ralli F-Cup 7 TURUN MOOTTORISEURA RY

14.9.13 Jari-Pekka Ralli, Heinola Ralli HRT 6 HEINOLAN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT

27.-28.9.13 SM Castrol-ralli, Tampere Ralli SM 5 TAMPEREEN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT RY

28.9.13 Oulujärvi Ralli, Kajaani Ralli RSJM, NSM 1 KAJAANIN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT


5.10.13 TeijoTalot Ralli, Perniö Ralli HRT 7 SALON URHEILUAUTOILIJAT

6.10.13 Laihian SM-Rallisprint RS SM 2 LAIHIAN URHEILUAUTOILIJAT
10.10.13 Vantaa Rallisprint RS K 8 UUDENMAAN AUTOURHELIJAT

12.10.13 Rantaralli XXXVIII, Naantali Ralli F-Cup 7 NAANTALIN SEUDUN UA

9.11.13 N3M Power Rally, Tammisaari Ralli Pienoisralli 8 EKENÄS-TAMMISAAREN MK/UA</sub>

That's fairly gawddam amazing if you ask me and worthy of studying HOW and why
in a country of just 5.5 million they have that many events

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i think the key to getting entrants, in all rally, not just 1 class is to have more frequent events in a smaller area, the RA has 3 regions, Nasa has pretty much 2, cuz they do almost nothing in the central area of the country.

Yeah but in our efforts to "Compare and Contrst" there's an awful big thing that jumps up and smacks me upside my haid and its the TYPE of cars that fills ALL those events up there....and again gravel is gravel, snow is snow, cars are cars but what KINDs of cars fills our events and what kinds fills theirs?

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this whole "national rally" idea has got to go.. its not working.. we need state level rally clubs, and more events in those clubs to start happening, b4 we will ever see 100, or 200 entrants into a national event...

Never has.. Yet all the worry SEEMS to be toward "The Natioanl Series OMG!!!!"

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finnland rally has a pride about it.. nobody here cares that England's dave higgins wins RA in with a 1/2 billion $$ team, there is no pride for me in that, is there for you..?

Nope, not any interested in the least.

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he's not my neighbor, not from my state, he isnt from our country.. nor is lestage, how is someone supposed to find pride in a national serries that the top teams and drivers arent just not local.. they are not even from this nation..

Well can't blame them if nobody here wants to step up and do it can you?

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hell we barely have home town pride any more in this country..

Hey, hang on I got a large amount of pride in my city and my region.
It is the only city in this country i would live, that's why I'm here.

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ok, so long long long rant.. i had a point, then got side tracked..

yeah that happens, its OK

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ohh yes.. here in america we rally for fun, over there its for pride of country..

No, they rally because it is fun..just like everybody right up to Whirled Champignon Loeb or Gronholm...They retired when it wasn't fun anymore.

Even when I did International moto-cross with a flag on my chest, if it wasn't fun I wouldn't jave done it, neither would anybody else...and when the total balance came up short, we didn't..

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and unfortunately our national events cover so much area, its logistically infeasible to get the exposure they get.. or sumthin..

Naw the National "series' has always been a lame distraction and a waste of effort and money..

The key is local

"All Politics is local" said some Masshole I think.

It applies to rally as well.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Is there honestly any reason this has to be more complicated than combining G2 and G5? RA already scored nationals as 2wd....

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bknblk2
Is there honestly any reason this has to be more complicated than combining G2 and G5? RA already scored nationals as 2wd....

Evdently it is..otherwise the brst techincal minds in the Contitnent wouldn't have labored for three years to fuck things up so badly...

How's your poor ol thang looking now that you've had some time to look at it?
Will you be able to play the piano again?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Voy perkele.

John, how do you propose to deal with the fact that they've got twisty roads and that in many cases we race on relative superhighways?

---

Self-righteous douche canoe