Open invitation to CARS for dialogue

I guess they didn't get the HANS memo in the UK. Here's some in car from an event a week or so ago and within the first minute of the clip you can see the HANS posts without any straps attached on both occupants.
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Either there is no HANS requirement at RAC sanctioned events,which seems a bit strange. The start crew doesn't check belts, helmets,and HANS, which seems a bit strange. Or nobody cares.
Looks like their going pretty fast next to big trees.
Looks like a cool rally.

Sean Gallagher

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2WD...Less Traction More Action!

Nice vid Sean. Looks like that guy may have done this a time or two before.

Yup, shiney HANS posts and no devices. Seems odd, maybe due to the Historic thing?

Do you guys have them in the desert scene?

Over here in the UK under the regulation of the Motor Sports Association we can generally race and rally without the level of "safety features" you guys seem to require, at least for the time being that is......
However new competitors do now need to complete a course (BARS for rallying and ARDS for racing), which costs approx $500 before they are entitled to obtain the MSA license for the discipline they wish to enter events in.

For most disciplines we can use a suitably fitted 6 point bolt in cage with single door bars, and that covers the cage aspect of the build at a minimal level. I understand that there is no need for us to go to the FIA standards in most cases.

Obviously the cars also require other safety aspects like the installation of fire extinguishers and electrical cutouts as laid down in the specific regulations for the activity the car is to be used in.

I think most competitors are pretty aware of the risks involved in the sport and accept these when they choose to enter events.

It must be the litigious ways of your continent that cause so much extra hassle.

But here is one for the lawyers out there, just imagine if all that extra cage structure you guys are made to add caused the car to be too rigid, and in a certain type of impact this super strong structure failed to deform and dissipate the energy like the standard car was designed to. This could mean a higher G force being transferred to the occupants and cause injury. Just who would be open to the law suits then?

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

WE don't actually require any extra bars. The basic cage is the FIA design so that would be the legal fall back. The defense would be it is a world standard design with XXX amounts of engineering from the people who brought you the WRC. Could be total BS but FIA is the gold plate organization for rally and road race.

Somewhat odd that the MSN is Britian is so far off with the safety equipment. Maybe the US is a trend setter? Or just the difference in the legal system. Where else can you buy hot coffee and then sue because you're clumsy? Or the nice lady with the Audi that drove it thru a garage , lied and sued, nearly bankrupting Audi. Or even better sue because your Toyota somehow managed to run away at 100mph and no one ever thinks to pull the thing into NEUTRAL but they have time to make a phone call. Freedom comes with the price of accepting stupidity as totally allowable....

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heymagic
Nice vid Sean. Looks like that guy may have done this a time or two before.

Yup, shiney HANS posts and no devices. Seems odd, maybe due to the Historic thing?

Do you guys have them in the desert scene?

http://www.msauk.org/site/cms/contentviewarticle.asp?article=775

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"Minimum Requirements

The Driver must be at least 17 years old and must hold a valid Road Traffic Driving Licence. Before you can apply for your first Stage Rally Driver Licence, you must do the following:


1. Purchase a "Go Rallying" starter pack from MSA which includes a DVD, a copy of the Motor Sports Yearbook, the necessary application form, plus various other useful items.

2. Complete a one-day MSA course for novice drivers, run only by members of the British Association of Rally Schools (BARS). Contact your local school for costs.

MSA Rallying
Visit the MSA shop to buy this pack.

When you have obtained a Competition Licence, you will require the following:


A car with added safety equipment (rollcage, fire extinguishers fireproofing, etc).

An MSA Log Book.

A navigator or co-driver who is at least 16 years old and holds a valid club membership card and a Non-Race National B or higher Competition Licence.

crash helmets and flame-resistant overalls.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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heymagic
WE don't actually require any extra bars. The basic cage is the FIA design so that would be the legal fall back. The defense would be it is a world standard design with XXX amounts of engineering from the people who brought you the WRC. Could be total BS but FIA is the gold plate organization for rally and road race.

So can you build rally cars with just a 6 point bolt in cage? I was under the impression from looking at various build threads and cage discussions on here that the standard was higher with extra bars and gusseting.

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heymagic
Somewhat odd that the MSA is Britian is so far off with the safety equipment. Maybe the US is a trend setter? Or just the difference in the legal system.

I don't think the UK is really that far off what is required regarding safety equipment. There have been decades of motorsport events held here in a pretty consistant and structured format which means the goal posts are not always moving for competitors.
A lot of these events can only take place because of the large number of entrants that make each event financially viable for the club running it. That's not viable as in profit making, that is viable as in covering the costs of running the event.

Now a lot of these entrants numbers are not the wealthy type, they are the grass roots, have been involved in the sport for a long time, the work hard to pay for it all type of people. When they start getting priced out of the game by being forced to buy and wear HANs and replace their harnesses and seats to conform to new regs then a lot of them will drop away due to the higher costs, and then the rich folk that can afford all the gear will not have events to go to because they are not finacially viable to run due to the lack of entrants.
Of course the number of entrants may just get made up to viable levels again by more rich people driving round slowly in their Shitz-in-da-bushes because they realise they won't get their butts whipped by someone in a car with an engine half the size and with half the amount of driving wheels.

Over here recently there have been several serious incidents in rallying with fatalities. This is very unfortunate for the rallying community and I am sure lessons will be learned, but I don't see a knee jerk reaction to radically change anything about the sport. To attempt to alter the status quo would effect so many people I think the powers that be recognise it would be opening a can of worms.

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

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danster
Over here in the UK under the regulation of the Motor Sports Association we can generally race and rally without the level of "safety features" you guys seem to require, at least for the time being that is......
However new competitors do now need to complete a course (BARS for rallying and ARDS for racing), which costs approx $500 before they are entitled to obtain the MSA license for the discipline they wish to enter events in.

For most disciplines we can use a suitably fitted 6 point bolt in cage with single door bars, and that covers the cage aspect of the build at a minimal level. I understand that there is no need for us to go to the FIA standards in most cases.

Obviously the cars also require other safety aspects like the installation of fire extinguishers and electrical cutouts as laid down in the specific regulations for the activity the car is to be used in.

I think most competitors are pretty aware of the risks involved in the sport and accept these when they choose to enter events.

It must be the litigious ways of your continent that cause so much extra hassle.

But here is one for the lawyers out there, just imagine if all that extra cage structure you guys are made to add caused the car to be too rigid, and in a certain type of impact this super strong structure failed to deform and dissipate the energy like the standard car was designed to. This could mean a higher G force being transferred to the occupants and cause injury. Just who would be open to the law suits then?

Damn, man that can be hard to Pass the Bar:

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Damn, man that can be hard to Pass the Bar:

Imagine my dissapointment to find that I was old enough to have grandfather rights and did not have to do the BAR course. I had so looked foward to staggering from pub to pub talking about rallying which I had presumed the course was about.

I did however do the ARDs course, not that I have used the race license yet. Part of the test was to drive a ghey hairdresser's MGF round the circuit at a reasonable rate to show I was proficient. Well I ain't ever driven something that new with gutless 16valve power, PAS, and mid engined, I think the examiner put the rear tyres up to 100psi to try and catch me out at the off camber hairpin in the wet, but I caught it with an instinctive flick of the steering wheel and passed the exam.

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

We have the six point cage with 2 door bars, an X in the main, 2 roof bars and the A pillar support bars. So 6 point on steroids...

We don't have enough participants to really be a 'force' . There are only a couple guys that rallied back when JV and I did that are still doing it. Lots of old farts still around but they build, volunteer, organize or otherwise back the sport, few compete.

When my son did road race school the instructor knew he had rallied a bit so the guy kept jerking the ebrake (on our car) trying to mess with the kid. Didn't work tho. He may be related to your instructor over there.

It seems that the UK knows to cater to the masses and not the anointed few to keep the sport viable.

Sean Gallagher

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2WD...Less Traction More Action!

Do you guys have them in the desert scene?[/quote]

Yes sir, required by all sanctioning bodies.
Most wear the Hybrid type of H&N. Don't know why, maybe it's easier / faster to get in and out of the Buggys and Trucks for driver changes. Bill wears a Hybrid, I never asked why.

Sean Gallagher

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2WD...Less Traction More Action!

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stgallagher
It seems that the UK knows to cater to the masses and not the anointed few to keep the sport viable.

Sean Gallagher

Well the tide may be a changing. HNRs are here to stay but it just seems like the rally scene is getting ready for a new act.

"Well the tide may be a changing. HNRs are here to stay but it just seems like the rally scene is getting ready for a new act".

That's what I'm talking about!

Sean Gallagher

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2WD...Less Traction More Action!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2013 12:20AM by stgallagher.