Something to think about in the car types/method of aquiring discussion

I have no idea what the chart at the top is trying to say.

As the owner of a stock Honda Si, 2005, there is no question I could be very competitive in that car for overall 2wd wins staying within the P class rules here in the NW club rally world. In fact often 2nd place behind my Golf was the Tabor Type R something in P class.

P class cars are not stock with safety gear - the rules allow really expensive bits to help performance. Mmm Proflex. They also allow you to spend as much as you wish on say tires - can you say softer compound replaced at every service.

Perversely P type classes cause big spending because as cheap performance gains are not allowed what is allowed needs to be exploited to the max.

I still recall Steve Millen driving the P class Press Car to 3rd overall behind Rod Millen and Bufum in the 1980's - showing a lot of people seat time counts for more than car class anyway.

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In the long run reality always wins.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2013 10:43AM by derek.

I just think P needs to go away 100%. But if people actually entered P class, I'd enter myeslf. But there are too many cars where you swap the grill or put in some intake from a generation before and bam your car is not P legal. Talking with Evan Cline he was talking about how silly SP rules are based off what year you run.

I still can't see all the nitpicking and how you can police it. Even from what I heard, Verena's car wasn't even B-Spec legal because she had a hydro handbrake installed all last year. But when nobody is in the class, nor is there any sort of $$$ on the line, nobody gives a fuck really.

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KTurner
if spec B disowned the mazda2 it might be interesting

What's wrong with the Mazda2 of the B-Spec bunch?

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BillyElliot

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KTurner
if spec B disowned the mazda2 it might be interesting

What's wrong with the Mazda2 of the B-Spec bunch?

I know they aren't running restrictors for the rally crowd but for the road boys it was the lowest common denominator and everyone gets to power down because of it. This has probably changed with the addition of the 500. I do know they were having issues keeping the rear end together during development for the pavement can't see all that stuff holding up very well. I'm not a big fan on spec-b in general it might work on the track but they just don't seem like a lot of fun on gravel without a bit of work (which would take it away from the spec B philosophy).

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-KTurner
Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel.

From what I remember, Fiat 500, Mazda2, Nissan Versa (1.6L) and Toyota Yaris run restrictorless. Makes sense though as all the cars power/weight vary so much. The Fiat is something like 100hp in 2280lb chassis while the Kia Rio is pushing close to 140 and if it was the same P:W ratio it would need to be 3200 lbs and it's only 2600lbs.

The Mazda guys ran the Mazda2 B-Spec car at the intial GRC events in California if I remember but I don't remember hearing any issues, but I didn't expect much for results from a 100hp car either.

But the B-Spec Fiesta isn't that far off from what a B-Spec/R1 Fiesta is or what most any P class Fiesta has shown. We get to pick our own dampers/springs, no straw to breath through, it's just that the people who drive them quite honestly don't really give the car the beans it deserves.

At BRS in 2011, Petrow was running his basically bone stock Fiesta on some off the shelf Bilstein shocks if I remember, McNeilly was running Verena's car which was on Reiger's but other than that a stock engine/trans/brakes and they were pulling pretty competitive times compared to yours and getting a few 2WDlight stage wins.

But again, getting the whole buy in for a "B-Spec" championship takes a lot of buy in when everyone is already running some sort of G2 car anyway and the cost to get into a B-Spec car you can build a much better G2 car and actually race against a HUGE field of competitors. There needs to be some sort of manufacturer tie in, like the R2 gets in Europe, where you get a severely discounted car direct from ford and then they sign over the title once you prove you installed the cage into the car. OR when I was talking to Robinson at 100aw, have the company provide the cars as long as you get an up front buy in to race an entire season in the car. The other option is people spending $20,000-$30,000 on a P class car, which nobody wants to do.

What the heck is B-Spec and how does it apply to rally?

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In the long run reality always wins.

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derek
What the heck is B-Spec and how does it apply to rally?

Yet another fad to distract kids..download an app and play it some video game to leARN ALL ABOUT IT..


iT'S THE LATEST THING THAT IS GOING TO SAVE RALLY.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

While you are correct that A-spec and B-spec are things within a video game, it is also a competition (or separate scoring system, if you wish) for 9 specific cars at RA events.

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Iowa999
While you are correct that A-spec and B-spec are things within a video game, it is also a competition (or separate scoring system, if you wish) for 9 specific cars at RA events.

this assumes that anyone actually enters and that RA publicly scores this series. I can't find the Spec-B results from last year but someone won a national championship for showing up to events. VM basically paid for the championship, good for her, good for Team O on promoting their products.

This also ignores the fact that Spec-B is a track specification and RA is awarding it to production class cars that could never run actual spec B.

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-KTurner
Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel.

I didn't actually assume anything of the sort, just as I don't assume that the statement "all zigglebots are zigglebots" requires that any zigglebots actually exist in order to be a true statement. But we digress...

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Iowa999
I didn't actually assume anything of the sort, just as I don't assume that the statement "all zigglebots are zigglebots" requires that any zigglebots actually exist in order to be a true statement. But we digress...

Indeed. I would rather focus on the following:

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Iowa999
While you are correct that A-spec and B-spec are things within a video game, it is also a competition (or separate scoring system, if you wish) for 9 specific cars at RA events.

9 specific cars? Are all nine of them owned by the same person? Are all nine of them registered in the same state? Are all nine of them the same color?



Or are we speaking, of course, of nine different particular make/models of automobile? Its all in what we say after all...

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Kirk Coughlin
Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI

Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.

Touché!

2012-2013 Chevrolet Sonic
2012-2013 Fiat 500
2011-2013 Ford Fiesta
2009-2013 Honda Fit
2012-2013 Kia Rio
2011-2013 Mazda 2
2007-2013 MINI Cooper
2007-2013 Nissan Versa
2007-2013 Toyota Yaris

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darkknight9

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Iowa999
I didn't actually assume anything of the sort, just as I don't assume that the statement "all zigglebots are zigglebots" requires that any zigglebots actually exist in order to be a true statement. But we digress...

Indeed. I would rather focus on the following:

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Iowa999
While you are correct that A-spec and B-spec are things within a video game, it is also a competition (or separate scoring system, if you wish) for 9 specific cars at RA events.

9 specific cars? Are all nine of them owned by the same person? Are all nine of them registered in the same state? Are all nine of them the same color?



Or are we speaking, of course, of nine different particular make/models of automobile? Its all in what we say after all...

Tavarich Kirk, do you have any idea what this guy is babbling about?


I'm too busy making parts to waste time on bullshit, so is just another way to consumerize the sport and waste effort for made-up "results"?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

The whole point was originally for a discussion we were havin with a new guy about fitting only safety parts to stock cars and why it (production class) would be a waste.

I in all honesty hadn't remembered the b spec series, but iirc, thats a hell of a lot more modifications than simple safety upgrades.

I don't even remember what his name was but too his credit: he never asked what he needed in order to make his car beat the other kids at school...

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Kirk Coughlin
Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI

Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.

B-Spec is just another sub-class under Production. It's only been around for a year. Verena Mei won it last year.

Whether it will succeed for the manufacturers or event organizers is beyond me. That it has been around for a year and hasn't gotten JVL's attention is not a good sign.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2013 11:58AM by Iowa999.

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Iowa999
B-Spec is just another sub-class under Production. It's only been around for a year. Verena Mei won it last year.

Whether it will succeed for the manufacturers or event organizers is beyond me. That it has been around for a year and hasn't gotten JVL's attention is not a good sign.

I will admit, the only reason i knew about it was seeing fordracingparts pic of the parts... and that was only after seeing a pic of Verena. She's cute.

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Kirk Coughlin
Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI

Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.