Quote
Pete
Talking to a more knowledgeable friend of mine, he says that I have THE gearbox to have because it's an '83 and thus the one with the SUPER SHORT gear ratios (sarcasm mine) because 4th and 5th are maybe 5% less of an overdrive than on other transmissions. I've driven enough actual close ratio transmissions to not think anything VW ever made was close ratio.

Your more knowledgeable friend could be on to something, depending on what model of Rabbit you have, and whether or not the transmision is original or has had a rebuild using "other" bits. The latter being a possibility as the boxes are made of cheese.

Anyway the point he was probably making is that the earlier Rabbit GTI boxes had a 3.89 FD (not the 3.94 used on later 3.9s), unlike the later box that got the 3.6 FD. Hmm, mind you this was the case in Europe so not gospel.
The oem "close ratio" GTI 5 speed gear sets basically stayed the same bar a weeny bit of difference on the 5th.....
3.45- 1st
2.12- 2nd
1.44- 3rd
1.12- 4th
0.91- 5th (early)
0.89- 5th (later)

Sourcing a 4.25 FD would help even more. And this also helps with the 1.94 2nd gear issue too.
And so does fitting an LSD as that gets rid of the standard diff pin and crownwheel rivets that will fail when driven arduously and put you out of an event.

Oh, and if you have the early gearbox this generally means the casing will not accept the larger 100mm inner CV joints. The later box casings were cast to give clearance for the bigger joints.

---

Disappointingly not yet a Jackass



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2013 08:35AM by danster.

Quote
Pete
What kinda road racing? It seems most people who road race these are Improved Touring, which means the gearboxes are stock with maybe a diff but lots just weld it and adjust their driving style.

Talking to a more knowledgeable friend of mine, he says that I have THE gearbox to have because it's an '83 and thus the one with the SUPER SHORT gear ratios (sarcasm mine) because 4th and 5th are maybe 5% less of an overdrive than on other transmissions. I've driven enough actual close ratio transmissions to not think anything VW ever made was close ratio.

Yeah, it was IT-freaking-C. I know it's not high zoot race stuff - just offering it to a good home because I'm not going to go to the trouble of ebaying it and we forgot to give it along with the rest of the crap when we sold the Rabbit stuff off.

The difference between 3.89 and 4.25 is so minor that I don't really think it's worth the hassle. Heck, in the RX-7 going from 3.91 to 4.78 was only a little bit of a bump percentage-wise.

At least it was made before the era of ring gear rivets that fall out. I think. If it's the original trans. I dunno. Not sure if I am going to even worry about that, since if the trans is good *now* then I could probably sell it for big bucks to an IT guy and use that money to put an 02J in it, which probably won't break as quickly.

--

I appreciate the offer but shipping would be a bitch and a half, and I don't think the rally parts caravan network flows between you and I.

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2013 10:59AM by Pete.

Quote
danster

Anyway the point he was probably making is that the earlier Rabbit GTI boxes had a 3.89 FD (not the 3.94 used on later 3.9s), unlike the later box that got the 3.6 FD. Hmm, mind you this was the case in Europe so not gospel.
The oem "close ratio" GTI 5 speed gear sets basically stayed the same bar a weeny bit of difference on the 5th.....
3.45- 1st
2.12- 2nd
1.44- 3rd
1.12- 4th
0.91- 5th (early)
0.89- 5th (later)

Sourcing a 4.25 FD would help even more. And this also helps with the 1.94 2nd gear issue too.

I say bugger the 4.25
Diya hear me? Bugger it.

I say if you have one of miserable thing and you're going to go to the trouble of opening up the box, may as well stick something in worth a damn.

A few years back thru the magic of Rallyanarchy and good fellow Carl Seidel up in da Youu Pee we organizsd,no credit due! Carl organised a group grope of VW final drives. I did the import and sending round. I strongly recommend the available 4.47 ratio, not the lame "only 8.25%" shorter 4.25... The bloody knobbie tires gear ya up at least 7-7,5% so going to 4.25 just brings you back to a stock GTI, and that's not enough..

Go enough to actually give you some added oooomph beyond simple tire size compensation, eh!

Quote

And so does fitting an LSD as that gets rid of the standard diff pin and crownwheel rivets that will fail when driven arduously and put you out of an event.

Ahhhh there's the big question! Yep they fail when driven what you consider arduosly...
But when about if they driven asiduously? Hmmmmm?

Aaaand, how bout if the car is driven ardurously? Will they last?

How about if beat vigorously?
Vivaciously? Vibrantly?
Athletically?

Inquiring minds seek to gno.

Quote

Oh, and if you have the early gearbox this generally means the casing will not accept the larger 100mm inner CV joints. The later box casings were cast to give clearance for the bigger joints.

Yes, there is that (haruph!)

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2013 11:15AM by john vanlandingham.

That is a very valid point about using the 4.4 FD. In fact I forgot I had put an 02K geabox with that ratio aside....
Those boxes turn up often over here, because they fall to bits whether they have been driven normally, controvertially or even romantically. But more usefully because the engines they are bolted to fall to bits regardless of how they are driven which means the gearbox is ok to salvage parts from. If one is a cheap bastid and can be bothered to hunt the stuff out that is.

And that is the rub, just how much monies or time does one throw at a Rarebit to make it good when there may just be other better platforms to start with these days?
Word on the street is that the Ford Fucos could have rear discs soon!
Did the Focus come with the 5 speed MTX FWD box out there?

---

Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

Slam it, poke it, and stretch it. Also, pick up a flat billed hat while you're at it!

Danny: The Focus did come with the MTX75. Noisy as all get out, but mine has been good for 240k miles so far....

Quote
Robert Culbertson
Slam it, poke it, and stretch it. Also, pick up a flat billed hat while you're at it!

You missed off adding outrageous camber then selling at a massive profit it to some vortex hipster!!

Quote
Robert Culbertson
Danny: The Focus did come with the MTX75. Noisy as all get out, but mine has been good for 240k miles so far....

Cable or rod change version? And what engines? The new alloy Duratec thing or did the earlier iron block Zetec make it to your shores? I'll bet the USA didn't get anything smaller than a 5.0 V8 or a Powerstroke in such a small car.

---

Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

Quote
danster
That is a very valid point about using the 4.4 FD. In fact I forgot I had put an 02K geabox with that ratio aside....
Those boxes turn up often over here, because they fall to bits whether they have been driven normally, controvertially or even romantically. But more usefully because the engines they are bolted to fall to bits regardless of how they are driven which means the gearbox is ok to salvage parts from. If one is a cheap bastid and can be bothered to hunt the stuff out that is.

And that is the rub, just how much monies or time does one throw at a Rarebit to make it good when there may just be other better platforms to start with these days?
Word on the street is that the Ford Fucos could have rear discs soon!
Did the Focus come with the 5 speed MTX FWD box out there?

Yeah when the cars have manual box, and that's only a tiny % here in Fortress America aka Festung Amerika..
I have managed to talk at least 2 people out of Fucci just because there is only limited availability of anything for the MTX75... crying shame cause it looks stout-er-er than the VW junk, but alas it is an MPG box...

I couldn't gfind any info definitive on alternate production ratios..
Seems Ford uses IB5 on smaller engined cars...

MTX75 started appearing on the "Contour" and Mystique" aka Mondeos, and I think all Fucci excpt the lame thing with the ZF box got MTX, except as said manual---cable shift---are quite uncommon..
more than 88% of the cars in 'Merikuh are autotragics.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2013 03:38PM by john vanlandingham.

Cable shift. The first generations came with the awesum SPI 8v (drops valve seats every 100k like clock work) and the 16 Zetec. The duratec used a 6spd box of some sort.
I have the Zetec and MTX, great combo.
Now I'm about to get all sentimental. The Focus has nearly a quarter million miles on it. I just now have to replace my first CV on it. Still rocking the stock clutch (!?), and I've only pulled the valve cover to replace the timing belt (x2). The car has been absolutely fantastic.

Quote
danster

And that is the rub, just how much monies or time does one throw at a Rarebit to make it good when there may just be other better platforms to start with these days?
Word on the street is that the Ford Fucos could have rear discs soon!
Did the Focus come with the 5 speed MTX FWD box out there?

Yes,focus (except for spi motored junk and the getrag's in the svt) all came with MTX75 in the US.

Close to a bulletproof trans..

Look over in Forced induction and race forums at Focaljet and see youngsters thrashing on them mercilessly on the street/dynos/tracks for years..big boost! 300/400/500/600 hp.....

People appear to be swapping them in Noble supercars to replace the weak factory trans...

Plated diffs are made by Kaaz,Mfactory, and Gripper.

It's weakness-who wants to pay a zillion $$ for Quaife gearsets on an el cheapo car.

Our only hope is Mfactory,who makes(beside's a plated diff),a 4.75 final drive $579.95 retail and a close ratio set(3RD,4TH,5TH ONLY) at $799.95 retail.

I find mostly good about this company but also some bad in the Honda Forums-they seem to be open to discuss failures and rectify problems though.

These Guys :

http://juggernautmotorsports.ca/

who I think are planning on buying John's suspenders(if they haven't yet)

are running the 4.75's and gear set,so I'm crossing my fingers and hoping these parts hold up....

---

................................................. .....................

Support your Local North American Rally Forum!!

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Quote
john vanlandingham
Yeah when the cars have manual box, and that's only a tiny % here in Fortress America aka Festung Amerika..
I have managed to talk at least 2 people out of Fucci just because there is only limited availability of anything for the MTX75... crying shame cause it looks stout-er-er than the VW junk, but alas it is an MPG box...

I couldn't gfind any info definitive on alternate production ratios..
Seems Ford uses IB5 on smaller engined cars...

MTX75 started appearing on the "Contour" and Mystique" aka Mondeos, and I think all Fucci excpt the lame thing with the ZF box got MTX, except as said manual---cable shift---are quite uncommon..
more than 88% of the cars in 'Merikuh are autotragics.

When I first saw the MTX box it just struck me as reasonable looking bit of kit. 5 gears contained within the case rather then 5th tacked on the end of what was generally a 4 speed to start with.
I spent an hour with one sitting alongside the VW cable change 02A/J and there were only a couple of mm difference in most dimensions, eg input shaft, bellhousing ID, etc.
The rod change version of the FWD MTX has a single shaft out of the diff housing to go to a shifter in the car. Simples, unlike the cables shift towers on the VW that need extra money to sort and improve the shift.
Things looked even better when I heard someone had developed the idea of just keeping the tallish MPG CWP of 3.9 or 4.2 iirc, but making a far lower ratio gearkit for it. Thus saving the expense of buying both a lower CWP and a gearkit.
These boxes were then fitted to different rally cars using a bellhousing adaptor plate and been driven aggresively with success.

---

Disappointingly not yet a Jackass



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2013 04:06PM by danster.

It should be the other way round. Bunny towin the sub. I call photoshop.

Quote
john vanlandingham
I think all Fucci excpt the lame thing with the ZF box got MTX, except as said manual---cable shift---are quite uncommon..
more than 88% of the cars in 'Merikuh are autotragics.

All SOHC Focus use the Mazda G-whatever box, same as the '91-up Escort.

Sad thing is the Mazda box has tolerable ratios, the MTX is stupid tall gearing, like 1st is maybe good for 50mph and 5th has you idling at sixty...

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

NOTHING IS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE! that said if i were to venture back into the MK1/2 craze i would look into a 2.0 16v from an old Passat. If i had truly evil ambitions i would do an ABA block with ABF pistons and a Scirroco 16v head.

Quote
Pete

Quote
john vanlandingham
I think all Fucci excpt the lame thing with the ZF box got MTX, except as said manual---cable shift---are quite uncommon..
more than 88% of the cars in 'Merikuh are autotragics.

All SOHC Focus use the Mazda G-whatever box, same as the '91-up Escort.

Sad thing is the Mazda box has tolerable ratios, the MTX is stupid tall gearing, like 1st is maybe good for 50mph and 5th has you idling at sixty...

No...no Mazda gearbox ever used in a Focus.

Spi Sohc cars(if you are unlucky enough to find one-look for a Duratec if you're Foci shopping!) came with the Ford IB5.

Excuse the Wiki links,but the trans listings(except they for get about the Duratec's) are right....and I'm uber lazy....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Focus_%28first_generation%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_BC-Series_transmission

---

................................................. .....................

Support your Local North American Rally Forum!!

While they are still around-and get the hell off Farsebook!!

We still have Specialstage & RallyAnarchy.

Post up Here:

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and here:

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