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Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....

Posted by Josh Wimpey

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zerodegreec
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zerodegreec

Re: Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....
May 09, 2013 08:18PM

Registered: 03/06/2012
Posts: 103

Quote
Morison
If you look at the appeal and response that is now listed on the RallyAmerica site it becomes fairly clear what happened with the final MTC.
- The transit time allowed was inadequite
- Cars were speeding in town to make their in-times
- The Clerk of the Course chose to allow declaring times in the past and to have a 'no penalty' final transit.
- The Clerk of the Course also positioned himself as a traffic control, telling everyone to not speed - and not worry - through town.

What is slightly unclear is when or how competitors were informed of the change, but it seems that it was only once they arrived at the town.

I also think some damage was done (or finalized) in the transit, not in the stage.

I seriously doubt anyone started the stage, or the transit, with the knowledge they wouldn't be scored at the final MTC.

Competetors were not advised of the final transit decision until they got into town, and more specifically less than a mile from the MTC6. We heard it being discussed on the rally Net when transiting and it was mentioned that only a few cars were yet to reach FTC17 when the decision was made. Most were in transit.

Intercom and electronics dude. www.zerodegreec.ca

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EricW
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Re: Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....
May 09, 2013 08:24PM

Registered: 12/09/2008
Posts: 280

People were asking to be taken to the Fogg!

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bknblk2
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Re: Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....
May 09, 2013 09:53PM

Registered: 02/02/2009
Posts: 181

Just read the appeal. Wow, well written.

Given what's done is done, was it bad sportsmanship for Cline to if not take a self imposed exclusion for what no one wouldn't claim was either a MPL "charge" or extreme failure of the team to correctly do timing, as you are never allowed to declare a time in the past, then,

take a position in the SP scoring that would more accurately reflect the reality of what happened?

Even if you hold your nose about the MPL and accept that "mistakes were made" by organizers, declaring a time in the past is an infraction of the scoring separate from the decision to not score the final transit.

So hard to say what you would do. Breaking the scoring rule by declaring a time in the past did not aid the team, as the transit was "not scored", so it was a simple breaking of a rule. I hope we wouldn't break a rule that badly and take another teams place on the stand. We talk all the time about how it's ateam sport and it's the codrivers job to RTFM, know the rulebook and do it right. They didn't.

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Morison
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Morison

Re: Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....
May 09, 2013 10:11PM

Registered: 03/27/2009
Posts: 1,798

Quote
bknblk2
Breaking the scoring rule by declaring a time in the past did not aid the team, as the transit was "not scored", so it was a simple breaking of a rule.

Since there wasn't a written notice about it, it is tough to tell exactly what was said BUT the suggestion is certainly that the marshall's instruction was that they could declare a time that had already passed.

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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heymagic
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Re: Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....
May 09, 2013 11:27PM

Registered: 01/25/2006
Posts: 3,740

There are many issues here, the short transit time, the rough roads, issues at MTC and then good intentioned attempts to patch and minimize the damage. It wasn't a picture perfect solution.

BUT, it happened, people will learn from it and we move on. I can't see putting any 'shame' on Evan. This is a case of him benefitting from someone elses 'mistake'. Really no different that Rifat benefitting from Lestage going off or Higgins benefitting from Block's mechanical issues.. Moyles position and opinion are very well stated and that is the best appeal I think I've ever seen. I'd feel better if Niday had signed than Fogg who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground . Rally is a mix of skill, knowledge, technique, money and most importantly ..shit house luck..(where did that originate anyway?). Some people benefitted from the situation. They didn't cause the situation, there is no guilt, lack of sportsmanship or wrong doing. There is a reason we have the saying " I'd rather be lucky than good"

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HiTempguy
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Re: Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....
May 09, 2013 11:53PM

Registered: 09/13/2011
Posts: 717

Quote
heymagic
Some people benefitted from the situation.

*this is speculation on my part*

Considering I was at the awards podium/final MTC, it felt to me like Evan wasn't going to show up. I'm curious if it was communicated to him that if he made it to the final MTC, he could "check in" without penalty and then he proceeded to do so (after initially stopping or the like).

That is the real issue I have with this. He was SO far behind, most people would have dnf'd themselves at that point, not risked damaging the car (remember, he was on 3 wheels, which is also not appreciated by the polizia at all), and packed up as there was literally NOTHING to gain under normal circumstances. He showed up way beyond a reasonable time, the penalty would have been large enough to drop him way down. That's why this is even an issue IMO.

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greycar
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greycar

Re: Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....
May 10, 2013 12:08PM

Registered: 05/07/2013
Posts: 9

Quote
Racinkid13

Quote
heymagic
I think Cline was the same guy who parked his broken Mitsu on stage and then got into quite the shouting match with spectators over his failure to put out triangles, I think. Age mellows most people.

at olympus last year? yellow mitsu? if so, a bunch of us workers and co-drivers yelled at him and he got super pissy.

if not, move along, nothing to see here.

That wasn't me, I never had a yellow Mitsu. Another mislead Internet jockey.

I made it to MTC on three wheels, something most of you would not attempt. I didn't break any rules and Rally America told us we were third. Not my ruling. Get Internet shitty about it as you all are. They still gave us a made up time for SS16 and a 30 second penalty to knock us to fourth. I will never automatically forfeit. Most of you don't race and don't race at our level. Something's you do to benefit sponsors best benefits. If they should be mad at anybody it should be RA for their ruling, not me for driving my three wheeled car to The final MTC.

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Morison
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Morison

Re: Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....
May 10, 2013 12:19PM

Registered: 03/27/2009
Posts: 1,798

Quote
greycar
If they should be mad at anybody it should be RA for their ruling, not me for driving my three wheeled car to The final MTC.

I don't think John/Mason (goodwin/milos for that matter) are mad at you for doing what you did at all. I think anyone in that situation would do the same. (Press on Regardless anyone?)
As for anyone else who is mad... do they matter?

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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zerodegreec
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Re: Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....
May 10, 2013 12:19PM

Registered: 03/06/2012
Posts: 103

I recall the yellow mitsu at Olympus was the Chinese drive co-driven by Martin Brady. They tossed it into the gravel pit on Nawatzel (sp?) and then blew the thing up -tranny?- on the first run of ridge special. Martin was super pissed. I recap him waking away from the car almost levitating at the Ridge.

Intercom and electronics dude. www.zerodegreec.ca

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2013 02:24PM by zerodegreec.

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john vanlandingham
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john vanlandingham

Re: Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....
May 10, 2013 12:59PM

Registered: 12/20/2005
Posts: 14,152

Quote
greycar

That wasn't me, I never had a yellow Mitsu. Another mislead Internet jockey.

Quote

I made it to MTC on three wheels, something most of you would not attempt.

Says who?
I have and it was a car without crutches for the driver aka AWD....and we flew on the stage--'cept right turns...

I'd bet MOST people would in the same situation..
We are all a lot more alike than we are different

Why did you only have 3 wheels? Don't those Essss Pee Subies come with 4?

Quote

I didn't break any rules and Rally America told us we were third. Not my ruling. Get Internet shitty about it as you all are.

So far, nobody getting really shitty..
I have said for 20 years "Hand in the time cards and declare "Event over at the end of the last SS" cause of sympathy foor so many friends DNFing on the l;ast transit---sometimes end of last SS is 55 miles from final MTC....

Only reason its done at the Hotel or whereever is "that's the waaaaaaaay it's aaaaaawlways done"....well that didn't stop folks from Stupor rally and Powerz Satges and all kinds of other evolutionary changes...
I feel for you but seems some are saying you were way way late and by NORMAL existing standards, would have been past MPL...

Quote

They still gave us a made up time for SS16 and a 30 second penalty to knock us to fourth. I will never automatically forfeit
.

Never give up

Quote

Most of you don't race

WHA????? Says who? Everybody here 'races' or has raced for decades longer than you and if they havn't YET they will in a few weeks OR they work events so you can go play---cause that's what you're doing bub , PLAYING...that's what we're all doing.

Quote

and don't race at our level.

WHat? What the fuck? Your level? Your LEVEL???!!!

Well most everybody here was exactly at the same level as you: getting beat by 15-20 cars by fractions and getting beat by 3 2wd cars---normal aspirated little things one of them at least...half the drive wheels and only 2/3 the engine and no turbo compared to SP car...
rally at an amateur level for fun...same as you..

Quote

Something's you do to benefit sponsors best benefits.

You saying you'll do anything for a little money?
Get caught once and they'll call you that for the rest of your life...

Quote

If they should be mad at anybody it should be RA for their ruling, not me for driving my three wheeled car to The final MTC.

Who is mad? Projecting a bit are you?
People are just talking since the news is as it always is fragmentary and crappy..

Relax.
Why three wheels?

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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HiTempguy
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HiTempguy

Re: Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....
May 10, 2013 01:09PM

Registered: 09/13/2011
Posts: 717

Quote
greycar
to knock us to fourth.

So, since you feel like being like that (the way you are posting), you are admitting you stood on the podium and sprayed champagne you shouldn't have received?

Evan, I don't mind you as a person. We actually chatted about clutches (and I bought an Exedy on your recommendation, thanks!) a couple months ago. But if you can't understand why people are frustrated with the way these things turned out, I don't know what to tell you.

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greycar
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greycar

Re: Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....
May 10, 2013 02:04PM

Registered: 05/07/2013
Posts: 9

God I hope my car sells so I can get out of this community. Thanks for the time people. I'm hanging this one up.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2013 02:05PM by greycar.

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john vanlandingham
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john vanlandingham

Re: Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....
May 10, 2013 02:10PM

Registered: 12/20/2005
Posts: 14,152

Quote
greycar
God I hope my car sells so I can get out of this community. Thanks for the time people. I'm hanging this one up.

You're doing what a lot of people do: quit when there's a little problem.
Don't quit, get a nicer car--something simpler and just as much fun and don't go crazy.
Do local--local-ish--events, spend less , enjoy more. smileys with beer

Never did tell us what happened to the wheel.. sad smiley

John Vanlandingham
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CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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wvonkessler
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wvonkessler

Re: Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....
May 10, 2013 02:52PM

Registered: 02/28/2006
Posts: 1,127

Quote
greycar
God I hope my car sells so I can get out of this community. Thanks for the time people. I'm hanging this one up.

Boy, that is disappointing

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

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greycar
Evan Cline
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greycar

Re: Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....
May 10, 2013 03:08PM

Registered: 05/07/2013
Posts: 9

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
greycar
God I hope my car sells so I can get out of this community. Thanks for the time people. I'm hanging this one up.

You're doing what a lot of people do: quit when there's a little problem.
Don't quit, get a nicer car--something simpler and just as much fun and don't go crazy.
Do local--local-ish--events, spend less , enjoy more.

Never did tell us what happened to the wheel..

Car has been for sale for a while now. This isn't an all of the sudden decision. It is a super simple set up. It's a stock STI. Not interested in going slower or steering away from AWD.

The barrel of the rim broke while on a flat tire. This broke the lower mount on the suspension. With that broken we couldnt get the spare wheel on completely. It eventually wobbled off so we kept going as we made it to where the road got wider and smoother. Sweep guided us safely back to MTC. We even past a police officer who kept going, so we did the same.

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