Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....

why is anyone talking about leaving the sport, or other people leaving the sport over a forum conversation?? is someone actually upset over a conversation where people are simply stating their opinions about what happened? are people actually that sensitive?? why get all butt hurt bc someone doesnt agree with you or what you did?

---

Less talk. More rally.

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Ckgtimk2
why is anyone talking about leaving the sport, or other people leaving the sport over a forum conversation?? is someone actually upset over a conversation where people are simply stating their opinions about what happened? are people actually that sensitive?? why get all butt hurt bc someone doesnt agree with you or what you did?

Are you new to the internet?

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Jard

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Ckgtimk2
why is anyone talking about leaving the sport, or other people leaving the sport over a forum conversation?? is someone actually upset over a conversation where people are simply stating their opinions about what happened? are people actually that sensitive?? why get all butt hurt bc someone doesnt agree with you or what you did?

Are you new to the internet?

lol. No just amazed at how serious people take it. Maybe I AM the one that doesn't get it. Maybe everyone IS attacking my ego with every word they type! Fuck me! I QUIT TOO!

---

Less talk. More rally.

Good, now I can quit. Finally.

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Quote
Ckgtimk2
why is anyone talking about leaving the sport, or other people leaving the sport over a forum conversation?? is someone actually upset over a conversation where people are simply stating their opinions about what happened? are people actually that sensitive?? why get all butt hurt bc someone doesnt agree with you or what you did?

Because even if we want to pretend we're all buddies, there are some whiney bitches and assholes, like the one saying "I'd rather they left the sport"..
What an asshole.

Maybe Billy could take his love of Evan to the next level, drop the bitch and make the switch...

What little Billy doesn't see--since he is so caught up with himself---is that a lot of people ---many of which have been in this sport since before he crawled out, seem to think that our friends in OR miscalculated some things and flat made confusing decisions. When people pay nearly $2000 to play (and tow for a week round trip) , the expect rational decisions explained clearly..

But when a punk says "lotta keyboard rallyist on this thread" and there's not a single one, we know its, as usual, Billy talking shit..
What a guy!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I believe Evan is going threw what all of us racers go threw at times. We all love racing rally all motorsports. Some times all the money spent and the drama made gets the best of the fun on the roads and you want to say fuct it but the passion inside seems to keep coming back and pulling you back in.

When you go home after a bad or rough weekend and you see the real life dutys that need attention you say its time to rethink. Then the next rally comes up and the hype starts building your urges to go fast start winning over common sense and pretty soon your back in the garage doing reprep instead of finishing the bathroom remodel!

So when someone pushes a button on the internet it just makes you lean tawards the why am I in this again?

If you havent felt this then your either racing on someone elses dime your rich as hell, you havent had the big one or you win constantly. Before you dump on Evan remeber it will happen to you and if it doesnt then your better then Loeb because I believe he just went threw this last year!

---

First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

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Reamer
I believe Evan is going threw what all of us racers go threw at times. We all love racing rally all motorsports. Some times all the money spent and the drama made gets the best of the fun on the roads and you want to say fuct it but the passion inside seems to keep coming back and pulling you back in.

When you go home after a bad or rough weekend and you see the real life dutys that need attention you say its time to rethink. Then the next rally comes up and the hype starts building your urges to go fast start winning over common sense and pretty soon your back in the garage doing reprep instead of finishing the bathroom remodel!

So when someone pushes a button on the internet it just makes you lean tawards the why am I in this again?

If you havent felt this then your either racing on someone elses dime your rich as hell, you havent had the big one or you win constantly. Before you dump on Evan remeber it will happen to you and if it doesnt then your better then Loeb because I believe he just went threw this last year!

I know what you're talking about. I "tied to quit in '73, and '78, but couldn't just piss 10 years down the drain, so went back.. Lost wife, jobs, money , everything... Guess that's why when I started with rally crap i knew the ONLY point was to keep the dollar/time/energy spent to fun return in the fat part of the curve and how, obver time, even though I was rallying a FWD car pretty good (4ths 5th OA locally, 4ths and 5ths and 6ths occasionally OA SS times at Nationals)
---I saw my local friends in rwd cars enjoying themselves more and staying involved longer--and getting better cause of than, yet still having fun...and that's why I push the (wrong) 240 (the Japonasie one), the GOOD 240 or Xratty :big simple engines, good size car with excellent balance, EASY upgrades, and good enough for any results if a guy goes temporarily insane and decided to "go for it".

But then when i ready whining and bitching and "I've done 3 rallies, I NEED a dog-box" or bullshit like billy writing, a nobody saying people need to get out of the sport, makes me sick and disgusted to be in the same sport..or how the sport has morphed and people like him came in.

Then i think of the nice call this morning from The New and Improved Dave Clark, or the nice notes I get from nice guys how much fun they had and how the suspension worked, I think., and i slow down.

So people will ask, like I said we expected good fair scoring and neutral application of the rules even back in the late 80s when it was $85 entry/day.
When there's chaos, people gonna ask why. Just unfortunate for Evan he was in the middle of it.

(now if there was just 2 classes, 2wd and 4wd, there would be this desperation to fight nuances of the rules for a meaningless class win in this class for Blue Subies vs that class for Blue Subies vs the other class for Blue Subies)

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

You will have a hard time making me hate the blue subies seeing that I make a living off them! Maybe I needs a BRZ rally car?

I really dont think its the rally car cost as much as i think its what I call bean counting (points racing) Bean counting will brake just about everyone! You drive across country to rally you dont care to race because its a must rally for beans rally.You could of stayed home and rallied the more technical more fun closer rally for half the cost. Yet most of us racers that want to WIN the next big thing do this.

Ive been bean counting in my oval track car for years been 2nd in points 5 times with less then 35 points seperation and as close as 3 beans. When your that close to that big trophy its hard to stop. I found rally and jumped ship. Yet the urge to bring a car out to the local track is still there. I hope I get a few good years of just having fun learning a new sport before the bean counting begins!

---

First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

ah, and see, you want sponsors to give you money, but for sponsors to give you money they want you to have beans, so to get beans, you spend more money


big ugly cycle


I'm aiming to run one rally per year, that's what I think I can almost afford, and I don't give a damn about no beans. (though I was lucky enough to have a friend help me out with the entry fee)

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Reamer
You will have a hard time making me hate the blue subies seeing that I make a living off them! Maybe I needs a BRZ rally car?

I really dont think its the rally car cost as much as i think its what I call bean counting (points racing) Bean counting will brake just about everyone! You drive across country to rally you dont care to race because its a must rally for beans rally.You could of stayed home and rallied the more technical more fun closer rally for half the cost. Yet most of us racers that want to WIN the next big thing do this.

Ive been bean counting in my oval track car for years been 2nd in points 5 times with less then 35 points seperation and as close as 3 beans. When your that close to that big trophy its hard to stop. I found rally and jumped ship. Yet the urge to bring a car out to the local track is still there. I hope I get a few good years of just having fun learning a new sport before the bean counting begins!

You know I don't have anything toooooooo serious against the cars.....they work well, and the Lego-aspect is a good thing allowing guys to say re-power an old Legassy or GC8 with better or reliable stuff rather than the old semi-solidified turd gearboxes.

But look at the mixing of times between Open, Ess Pee and Rally-lite or whatever the 2.5 n.a. class is called: all mixed up.. Those three classes are 99% filled iwth Subies and they all make similar SS times. Good-er-er 2.5 n.a. guys beat some Open and Ess Pee guys and good-er-er Ess Pee guys beat lots of everything..

The poor cars didn't whine and complain and weep big ol crocodile tears and say "I can't beat Blockstrana, it's not fair cause I can't win" while making little fists and holding their breath till they turned blue...
The Sanctioning Corporations didn't whine for more classes...

We just last year and this past event watch some guys from that new addition to Europe called Oztralia come up and straight outta the gate do real good, Orders in a 20+ year old Nissan with a turbo motor rwd car last year, and now whassisname in a poncy little bitty n.a. 1600 Fiester
Cause they can drive and they have been at it a long time 15 years+

If a scrany little 1600 n.a. thang can with just fwd and a good box beat all but a few guys, Rally -ite and Essay Pee guys can too.
If they stopped whining about needed special treatment and learned to drive.

They don't need free prizes for made up classes..

2WD class and 4wd class ought to be enough. Open.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I here what your saying and agree about orders and the r2 driver breeves? I do think thow there needs to be 4 classes I wont get into again but I still feel there needs to be a modified class. Limit big ticket items and let them build there cars strong ,and truley let the good drivers without huge budgets be competative. 4wd 2wd open and modified.

Your buddy Billy can feel good and say hey I can get within 5 sec a mile of Breeves in his 70K r2 car with my 10k Civic. This is cool but I would rather say I matched times with Breeves in the same value equipment and same amount of tires per rally.

Will Breeves come rally with a civic prolly not but most of the field will.

You all may call it whinning I call it sustainabuility of deep competative rally.

---

First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

Evan,,stay the course, ignore the noise you don't care for. You don't need to answer to anyone here.


Ah, the car class situation. Breeves beat ACP, ACP has a very heavily modified forced induction car. So I see no need for anything other than one 2wd class. If you can't afford to run with the big dogs then you can't. No shame and dollars to blame if someone can't own their driving abilities. We don't have enough hi-tech 2wds to worry about. We have an abundance of mediocre drivers.

P/PGT cars for example, well most newer stock cars have more power than any of the old 2wd open cars so really an even field there. Someone races an old stock Golf because they are a cheap bastard and want to be P class, but some other bastard has good income and buys a FRS and runs that in P because he has an advantage...dollars. How do you equalize that? You can't really and shouldn't. People need to rally for fun, live with your efforts. There will always be someone faster, taller, younger, richer, better looking, smarter, dumber, grumpier (that would be me) and so on. Bigger house, taller truck, newer boat etc. Is there any real pride in saying "I'm the fastest broke guy here today' ?

2 classes AWD and 2WD, forget the W-2s because life just ain't fair anyway. All men are NOT created equal , they were however created in the same fashion ...someone got boinked. its the way of the world.

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Ckgtimk2

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Jard

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Ckgtimk2
why is anyone talking about leaving the sport, or other people leaving the sport over a forum conversation?? is someone actually upset over a conversation where people are simply stating their opinions about what happened? are people actually that sensitive?? why get all butt hurt bc someone doesnt agree with you or what you did?

Are you new to the internet?

lol. No just amazed at how serious people take it. Maybe I AM the one that doesn't get it. Maybe everyone IS attacking my ego with every word they type! Fuck me! I QUIT TOO!

It's more that the loud and vocal people with likely the improper opinions are the ones that get heard. I can pretty much say that anyone who is a "status quo" type person and gives zero fucks about what happens won't say anything.

The issue comes down to money. If there wasn't a Subaru contigency, I doubt Mason would have gave a fuck about lodging this protest at all. You think stuff like this is going to get any better if rally ever becomes popular in the states? You'll see people being excluded from events because their rear windows were too thin or they didn't have a clutch with an FIA homologated part number on it. Both were real things that EXCLUDED competitors from a race.

I understand rules are rules, but seriously if I found out some guy beat me and had an illegal clutch or whatever. I probably wouldn't care because we're talking maybe fractions of a second per shift they are saving. It's just that our organization and rules are built around an FIA level of competition but really we're all pretty close (even most national guys) to advanced clubmen level of comeptition and car preparation.

Quote
Reamer
I here what your saying and agree about orders and the r2 driver breeves? I do think thow there needs to be 4 classes I wont get into again but I still feel there needs to be a modified class. Limit big ticket items and let them build there cars strong ,and truley let the good drivers without huge budgets be competative. 4wd 2wd open and modified.

Your buddy Billy can feel good and say hey I can get within 5 sec a mile of Breeves in his 70K r2 car with my 10k Civic. This is cool but I would rather say I matched times with Breeves in the same value equipment and same amount of tires per rally.

Will Breeves come rally with a civic prolly not but most of the field will.

You all may call it whinning I call it sustainabuility of deep competative rally.

I say let the national guys play with the big toys. The ROI for a national 2WD championship isn't really there anyway.

If you want to play with cars that limit "big ticket items" let that flow down to regional level competition. Basically ban dog boxes or something (not that you can't spend just as much on a syncro box) but if someone wants to spend that much money to go faster, they'll find somewhere else to do it. Probably the biggest performance advantage any competitor can get on a regional level is putting on fresh, or relatively fresh, tires on at every service.

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BillyElliot
Probably the biggest performance advantage any competitor can get on a ANYlevel is putting on fresh, or relatively fresh, tires on at every service.

Fixed it for you.
This is actually something funny, people spending serious money on all sorts of fancy parts building engines, remapping ECUs all the time, 10k+ suspensions, only to show up at the events and run used tires that have been heat cycled 15 thousand times, when a dog-on brand new fresh set of tahres is better than 10-15 more horsies.

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Cosworth

Quote
BillyElliot
Probably the biggest performance advantage any competitor can get on a ANYlevel is putting on fresh, or relatively fresh, tires on at every service.

Fixed it for you.
This is actually something funny, people spending serious money on all sorts of fancy parts building engines, remapping ECUs all the time, 10k+ suspensions, only to show up at the events and run used tires that have been heat cycled 15 thousand times, when a dog-on brand new fresh set of tahres is better than 10-15 more horsies.

Reminds me, I need to talk to Justin about getting tires for LSPR if I end up making Ojibwe.