Looks like the fast Euro test may come to pass at Oregon....

*Directs all rage on you*

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MConte05
*Directs all rage on you*

hahahaha

I think John is mistaking Mr. Cline for Mr. Moen.

---

Owner, Driver, Head Mechanic, and Janitor at Tower City Race Team, headquartered near L'Anse. Michigan.
Driver / CoDriver in Rally America, NASARallySport, ARA, AMS, UPMDA, Champ Off Road

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So, about that fast Euro test... and Asian for that matter.

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NoCoast
Evan's the specialstage crybaby that sucker punched Caswell right?

What's this story? More please.

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

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johnhuebbe

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MConte05
I like Evan, but I was pretty peeved at 100AW he dual-entered both national and regional, I'm assuming because he knew there was a regional "honeyjar" challenge that he could easily sweep up, and ended up walking away with $1000 for beating out the local guys in their beat up old Subarus. I really wanted to see Justin take top honors there!

IMO, technically, if you have a beef with someone it should probably be with RA for allowing a regional competitor to enter nationally (dual entry) or with the organizer for allowing dual entry competitors to be eligible for the honeyjar. He was within the rules.

Or... we should be having a discussion on what kind of people should be national vs. regional competitors.

John for many years, 20-25 at least , some have questioned the artificiality of ANY distinction between what was once grandiosely, and absurdly called "Pro" (National)
and "Divisional" (Club).....
Now, aside from maybe 3 very expensive cars, the difference is what a individual for whatever reason decides to check off in a box on the entry form---and how many thousand dollars he wants to spend so he can brag he was __th place in "The Big Race" (knowing nobody is going to check and see he was beat by 32 "club" cars.

This has led to there being "National" Champ-peen who finished second from last on every single stage they finished --except one 4th from last---in the entire season..
An outrageous absurdity.

Obviously the fixation with "The NATIONAL!!!! Series" has caused a LOT of wasted effort, and I posit, has hurt the sport by totally undermining the value of what a "National" placing means.

Some far sighted people have suggested an incentive program whereby every event dishes out "National Champ-peen" points in direct proportion to their SS milage---a sort of co-efficient system with incentives.

Think of this; say Joe Blow in Bumfawk, Egypt,a desolate place with only 5-7 guys withing 5 hours, Joe puts on a smallish 25 SS miles event. Good ol boys drive their S10s and Broncos, and one guy with his Blue Subaru kicks their asses bad..
He gets "winnerz" points x 0.25.

Ole Olsen in Squarehead County Minnesota puts on an event with 100 stage miles and some guys wins...winnerz points x 1.....

Some crazy bastid who thinks driving 20 hours for 100 minutes of SS times spread over 3 days when it could be 2 decides to do an event like he knew when he started---and was common until the early 1990s, so he does a event with 185 SS miles.. Winner gets winnerz points x 1.85..

End of year, add up the points. Variety, choice, budget all shake out..

No separate anything, no imbecilic, stupid different higher car spec for guys paying more to enter. 1 set of rules, one set of classes, most points wins--

And no "entry points" like in the 90s where a fruiend had 10 DNFs in the Nationals and his 20 points worth of "entry points" even though they were all DNF finishes, actually beat guys with wins on one round.
10 DNFs beat one win.
As your ancestors used to say "Wahnsinn!"

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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Dante
I think John is mistaking Mr. Cline for Mr. Moen.

Yeah could be...All them blue Subies all look the same.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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wvonkessler

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NoCoast
Evan's the specialstage crybaby that sucker punched Caswell right?

What's this story? More please.

Well, as I recall, he built a Subaru because of contingency money, then posted a big whiney ass diatribe on SS complaining that his 04 wouldn't make as much money as the 06 and newer and he was getting butt fucked and was whining like it was literally happening. "Waa waa, I built my car, waa waa, contingency is higher for new models, I won't be able to afford to race, waa, waa, waaaaaaa! I'm going to have to sell my car now... Waaaaaaaaaaa!!!"
100AW he was rumored to have sucker punched Caswell in the bar and fight ensued or something. I'm sure Bill will happily tell the whole story if you asked. I think he was upset about getting stickered or something.

---

Grant Hughes

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john vanlandingham
This has led to there being "National" Champ-peen who finished second from last on every single stage they finished --except one 4th from last---in the entire season..
An outrageous absurdity.

While that may be true in Production, I don't really think you can say the same about the rest of the classes.

The SS.13 start order reflects the total cumulative standings as of the end of Saturday. http://rally-america.com/events/2013/OREGON/results/startorder/13
Exceptions are the dnfs on stage who are at the bottom of the order. Yoeman and ourselves at least. I think the Sonett was last on the road.

I don't see a lot of what you're talking about reflected in those standings.
in most cases the 'top of the class' is also finishing ahead of the regional entries in the same class.

In some ways I think it is almost more disingenuous to say, as many do, that they came in second overall (like we did) but not be clear that it was in the cheaper, more budget friendly, regional event and not also mention where they were in the overall field. (13th, in our case)

But at the end of the day I also don't loose perspective and am just happy that we had a great time, loads of fun, and there are a whack of volunteers out there who are sunburnt and will have black snot for a week or so!

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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NoCoast

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wvonkessler

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NoCoast
Evan's the specialstage crybaby that sucker punched Caswell right?

What's this story? More please.

Well, as I recall, he built a Subaru because of contingency money, then posted a big whiney ass diatribe on SS complaining that his 04 wouldn't make as much money as the 06 and newer and he was getting butt fucked and was whining like it was literally happening. "Waa waa, I built my car, waa waa, contingency is higher for new models, I won't be able to afford to race, waa, waa, waaaaaaa! I'm going to have to sell my car now... Waaaaaaaaaaa!!!"
100AW he was rumored to have sucker punched Caswell in the bar and fight ensued or something. I'm sure Bill will happily tell the whole story if you asked. I think he was upset about getting stickered or something.

Found post...
"The bar fight was me walking in, and Evan knocking me to ground telling me his so sick of my CASWELL stickers. the dude flipped out all night. pushed me down a second time. Why would I want to fight him, he clearly has issues going on with himself that has nothing to do with me. the bar fight happened months ago. My friends knew about it. I never went off on Evan because something is wrong the guy, its his problem. BUT THEN I SEE MY FRIENDS TAKING FREE PRODUCT FROM THE GUY?????

Then I realized I should have spoken up when it happened. I should let you know about the behavior of their employee representing their company at rallies. So that you too can make informed decisions.

I think life is to short to work with scumbags. taking their free product validates their behavior and tells them its ok to treat people like this. Sure you dont have to marry the guy, but you shouldn't be doing business with him. There are tons of other clutch companies. tons.

And no I wouldnt have gone off the deep end if the fight didnt happen, I didnt even know who evan cline was before that. I was pissed that I didnt speak up earlier. "

---

Grant Hughes

And I guess he wasn't quite whining as much as I recalled...
http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?38299-NASA-vs-Rally-America

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Grant Hughes

Reeves ran as high as 4th overall on stage, with the 3 cars in front being WRC or equivalent machines, proving that US drivers are slow compared to the rest of the world.....end of story.

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urr
Reeves ran as high as 4th overall on stage, with the 3 cars in front being WRC or equivalent machines, proving that US drivers are slow compared to the rest of the world.....end of story.

The only US driver up in the top 5 was Block. Then Henderson in 6th (who is local). Seems to me that having someone local finish 6th overall is pretty darn cool in my rally book.

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urr
Reeves ran as high as 4th overall on stage, with the 3 cars in front being WRC or equivalent machines, proving that US drivers are slow compared to the rest of the world.....end of story.

But does that mean Ozzie-bastids are now Euro-bastids?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
But does that mean Ozzie-bastids are now Euro-bastids?

Does it matter? They are still fast bastids.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.