Who are the people that want to do recce?

Need to stir things up some more, it's been too quiet lately.
IMHO, they must be primarily,
#1. People that own their own business therefore they have the capital and taking time off from work is a total non issue.
#2. They are wealthy (or daddy is).
#3. They are retired or for another reason don't work (wife is C level exec).
#4. They are part of the young generation that I frequently hear about that often just don't show up for work with no explanation/reason.
#5. They take all their vacation/sick time and spend no vacation time with family.
My $.02. I'm probably way off base but I want to hear how you think they manage it.

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Don Kennedy

I flex my time at work to take an extra day. Or else I just have enough vacation days saved up to do the extra day or so. It's not rocket science.

I am just a 20-something engineer at an aerospace company.

They could also be younger people with cheap(er) rent and less/no kids to support, hence the additional time off not really being an issue.

Not everyone has to be "rich" to rally. Some people might just have LESS expenses. There are two sides to having extra money...

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Before kids...I didn't like recce. It was a boring trip in a rental car, and would end up meaning I ran out of vacation days one rally sooner than w/o recce.

Now, I'll be lucky to get away for two weekends (plus the garage time to build/repair), so vacation time isn't the factor, and as far as my wife/kids are concerned, Wed-Sun is the same as Thur-Sun, so bring on the recce!

I agree. Before kids it was all a game anyway. Now that I have a family, rally has been on hold for a few years. I'm holding onto the dream. Eventually I think working on the rally car, and being part of a 'team' will be a healthy activity for me and my sons.

There's different ways to race. Around a dirt circle track. Paved. Road course. Rally Sprint.
To me recce is just another way to rally.
-The Pro's for recce just don't stack up against why I wanted to do this variation of motorsports in the first place. If I wanted to drive a car at 10/10ths perfectly around every corner etc, I'd have chosen road course. I wanted to drive real fast down a road I'd never seen. If you don't know what's over that crest and can't reliably 'read' the road then slow down! Part of the allure is going fast, but also getting your vehicle to the end of a very long test.

The Cons are serious to me. Vacation time, and overall cost are MUCH higher. And there's the 'fun' part of the equation. Driving around all day at 10mph in a dust cloud while trying to make worthwhile notes is a headache inducing stressful boring activity at the best of times. I'd rather be hanging with my family or going for a long run down a country road, or on a trail. It's easy to change sports. Why do something that sucks, costs extra money, takes extra time, for no benefit (for me benefit equals enjoyment since we're not making money doing this).

I'm all for quality Tulip's!

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imnotcrazy
#1. People that own their own business therefore they have the capital and taking time off from work is a total non issue.

I've found most business owners are MUCH busier than the typical employee, usually because their extra "wealth" comes from the sweat equity (in actual physical work or simply time in dealing with business things), so they in fact have a tougher time committing to rally. Time and again I've saw many WELL off business owners struggle with the time commitment.

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#2. They are wealthy (or daddy is).

Kind of speaks for itself. Independent wealth where you don't have to run a business rocks. Or if you are wealthy enough and can pay everyone to do everything for you (saving the time issue).

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#3. They are retired or for another reason don't work (wife is C level exec).

Falls into #2 imo.

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#4. They are part of the young generation that I frequently hear about that often just don't show up for work with no explanation/reason.

Then they wouldn't have jobs to pay for this expensive hobby. Doubtful

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#5. They take all their vacation/sick time and spend no vacation time with family.
My $.02. I'm probably way off base but I want to hear how you think they manage it.

Any motorsport requires serious time and money commitment. There is no way around it. Can you dimish it? Sure. But it still requires it. Knitting? Not so much.

Myself? I went and got an education in a field I found moderately interesting, kicked ass in my studies, and got hired in a field that pays well. I try not to take shit from anyone, work hard, and get rewarded for my efforts. Pretty straightforward. And I consider myself poor compared to many of my friends. Many of the other "younger" individual WITHOUT families (definitely an important factor) that I see doing this operate similiarly.

I am none of these. And I like Recce.

Sole earner for the family. Two kids, one 8 the other 6. I have a New house and own one car (paid for). No debt other than the house and I have worked my A$$ off to be in that position. I get as much vacation as I want because I am an hourly employee (if I dont work, I don't get paid) But my office frowns on me taking more than 4 weeks a year.

I budget for approx 4 weeks of holiday a year.
2 weeks are with my family and sometimes 3 (this year we went to Disney Land with the kids).

I planned for approx 7 events this year with 2 local (as in <100km from my house. Turns out 1 was cancled so I am down to 6.

By doing the maths for all of my events I will need to take 10 days off work to Rally. and this includes travel both directions, Recce days etc.

My math says that of 250 working days in 2013 I will take 4% off for MY hobby. Really if you can't take 10 days off a year to go rally based on 6 events in a season... well I feel sorry for your life choices. The plan this year includes OTR, Olympus, Cochrane, RMR, PFR, Big White.

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Intercom and electronics dude. www.zerodegreec.ca



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2013 06:07PM by zerodegreec.

To do otr with recce would require 5 or 6 workdays off (5 if you skip awards/after party.) For me/this region that is.

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Grant Hughes

I personally find recce really boring. In fact OTR this year we skipped out early to get back before traffic got bad in PDX. My only regret on race day was that I didn't skip out sooner. Or just take dirt bikes and rip around the woods instead.

Recce means an extra day off, wear/tear on the daily driver, potential for accidents with log trucks, recreational users or other members of the public we are trying to not piss off. Most people are probably fine with a road closure for a racing event. They are probably not amused dodging the rental car brigade going way to fast on those same roads before the event.

I do like notes though, and would think event provided notes would be a good compromise.

If recce is causing ANY issues with the public or landowners, then it should be dropped. Seems in this country anyway that these roads are hard enough to come by so why risk them with something that really doesn't need to happen for us to have fun? None of us are pros, none of us are on a career path to WRC, so what does a few tenths here or there matter? Modify your notes at speed and use them the next time you run that stage.

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John Reed
John Reed Racing
www.johnreedracing.com
johnreedracing@gmail.com

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John Reed
None of us are pros, none of us are on a career path to WRC, so what does a few tenths here or there matter?

Whoa whoa whoa! Slow down with your crazy talk!

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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HiTempguy
I've found most business owners are MUCH busier than the typical employee, usually because their extra "wealth" comes from the sweat equity (in actual physical work or simply time in dealing with business things), so they in fact have a tougher time committing to rally. Time and again I've saw many WELL off business owners struggle with the time commitment.

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Not true. If you own the business, while you may put in more than "40" hours a week, you can (usually) schedule your time accordingly. In the simplest form, work 3 days the week before and after the event (or more weeks), each day being 12 hours or more per day, and take 4 days off without losing anything. You don't have someone else telling you WHEN you have to work, usually.

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Don Kennedy

im rather indifferent. Recce does mean more time off for me (bad) but i also am out to just have fun (good) hence me using old rear drive cars. So "meh" if i can i will, if i cant, well whatever.

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
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Anders Green

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John Reed
None of us are pros, none of us are on a career path to WRC, so what does a few tenths here or there matter?

Whoa whoa whoa! Slow down with your crazy talk!

Whew, thank good somebody RESTORED SANITY!!!

Now JohnR we know he's just having some fun cause he hasn't sold off all his enduro and MX bikes but from what I can see almost ALL the 20 somethings here are destined for stardom...Didn't one say he's pretty much seen it all (at 23)? Where else can he go?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I had to sell a kidney and a testicle to provide for the entry fee.

Finally behind a computer...
From original list, I think #1 and #2 are the only groups I see actually owning rally cars, though #1 has more subgroups than I care to count. I can tell you that I know very few self employed individuals that can miss a day of work and just make it up some other way. Consultants maybe. I know one self employed person who's company loses 1-2k in revenue per day. That person takes maybe two or three weekdays off per year tops and ends up working most Monday holidays at least half day.

I think. Preface everything from here on with that...

Most rallyists want recce. With our current system, very few are going to be able to do more than 1-3 events per year. Anders stats lend some backing to that statement. There will be outliers and tails on every debate. But the 1-3 per year are going to be composed mostly of middle to upper middle class wage workers. Myself and a most others I have talked to about recce have at one time or another made a statement along the line of, "If I'm going to make all this effort, I will look to events that also offer recce. It is part of rallying and I want to do it/experience it."
Keep in mind here that many of these people are in Colorado where we can be picky due to large distances to all rallies. In denser regions I would expect similar feelings though more are likely to do both recce and non-recce events since towing expense is lessened.
Here is where it gets sticky. Recce adds to event expense and impact on community. It increases negative impacts in communities, it increases volunteer time, it increases organizational duties, in increases organizational expense, and it increases competitors expense and time.
Recce will reduce the number of events a competitor enters per year.
Recce will impact some organizers leading to a reduction in unique stage miles.
Recce will reduce the number of car destroying incidents.
Recce will lead to an increase of the number of years a competitor stays active.

Again, this is a generalization, but I believe the logic to be sound.
So, what is the solution???
The same thing I've been repeating. Regional championships made of 4-5 rallysprints with 1-2 unique stages run multiple times (30-60 stage miles), recce Saturday morning (possibly on closed road), race Saturday afternoon/evening. And one - two major events with a full stage schedule.
Repeat stages lead to ability to fine tune notes, note making ability, and comfort with the car. Low key of sprints and local competitor pool would lead to stronger competition and higher retention of local competitors. With 4-5+1-2 events, most competitors would have their hands full and hopefully having plenty of fun while not breaking any banks and finding something else to do that has lower costs (not just monetarily costs.)

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Grant Hughes