How to get started in Rally video

The number one way to get people hooked on rally is to get them into a car. A video gets watched for 5 minutes, people go "cool" and then forget it.

It's no different than having a conversation in person versus over the phone/by email. A personal connection to it is missed.

The next time you test your car (legally) take 3 people you are acquainted with that aren't current rallyists/volunteers/crew and take them for spins.

THAT is the way this sport will grow. Working up north, everybody's mind is blown at what I do. I make the offer to anyone from Calgary to come out to our test day and I'll give them a ride, they just need to show up at somepoint throughout the day.

Edit-
Basically, I think this project is very thoughtful, but misguided and a misuse of people's time and effort when they could be much more productive with that time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2013 06:46PM by HiTempguy.

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HiTempguy
The number one way to get people hooked on rally is to get them into a car. A video gets watched for 5 minutes, people go "cool" and then forget it.

It's no different than having a conversation in person versus over the phone/by email. A personal connection to it is missed.

The next time you test your car (legally) take 3 people you are acquainted with that aren't current rallyists/volunteers/crew and take them for spins.

THAT is the way this sport will grow. Working up north, everybody's mind is blown at what I do. I make the offer to anyone from Calgary to come out to our test day and I'll give them a ride, they just need to show up at somepoint throughout the day.

Edit-
Basically, I think this project is very thoughtful, but misguided and a misuse of people's time and effort when they could be much more productive with that time.

I imagine they are amazed. Do you tell them how often you crash? And DNF?

I used to take people out as co-drivers and that got them hooked and searching for cars and cages in about 80% of the time... Maybe 17-18 cars in 5-6 years that way..
So, for once, you're right about that part...

But smart people always attack problems on a broad front, cause rthe one on one method is slow in building numbers..

The problem is the detailed nature of the information and TV and Vids are an essentially passive activity....

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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HiTempguy
The number one way to get people hooked on rally is to get them into a car.

We're going to give 130-150 people rides this weekend at HyperFest.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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Anders Green

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HiTempguy
The number one way to get people hooked on rally is to get them into a car.

We're going to give 130-150 people rides this weekend at HyperFest.

Anders

Well Mr. Stastictics, if you are half as successful as I wuz there should be about 40% of those people getting started as drivers so we should expect another 52 to 60 new drivers shortly...
Do you have a estimate for how long before we should expect this surge?

Maybe the days of 150 car fields aren't so far off....he wonders musingly.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Once these kids get better jobs, I expect. Most are quite young, 18-22.

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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Anders Green
Once these kids get better jobs, I expect. Most are quite young, 18-22.

Oh OK, judging from the norm say 12 to 15 years, OK

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
Anders Green
Once these kids get better jobs, I expect. Most are quite young, 18-22.

Yea, people that I make this offer to are typically what I consider "adults" aka established outside of post secondary.

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HiTempguy

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Anders Green
Once these kids get better jobs, I expect. Most are quite young, 18-22.

Yea, people that I make this offer to are typically what I consider "adults" aka established outside of post secondary.

The irony...oh the huge manatee....

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Dave actively tries to get people to come out and take ride alongs in his BMW. Even BMW and rally enthusiasts don't seem to make the 60 mile trek to CORE to take him up on the offer.
I wonder if Dirtfish has led to any increase in competitor count in the PNW. A rally school is probably the best way to get someone seat time. Generally, if you can't afford a rally school, you likely can't afford to rally so they are probably bringing in a pretty good group of potential rallyists.

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Grant Hughes

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NoCoast
Generally, if you can't afford a rally school, you likely can't afford to rally so they are probably bringing in a pretty good group of potential rallyists.

(groan)

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
NoCoast

I wonder if Dirtfish has led to any increase in competitor count in the PNW. A rally school is probably the best way to get someone seat time. Generally, if you can't afford a rally school, you likely can't afford to rally so they are probably bringing in a pretty good group of potential rallyists.

I am one who went to Dirtfish for 3 day school and bought a car a month later and subsequently competed in 6 events (crashed on my 6th). So, I would say that, yes, rally schools are good feeders for our sport.

I am not sure what the groan was for, John, but I agree if you don't have $2500 for rally school, you probably don't have $8-$10K to build/buy a car and $2k per event

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SeanP

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NoCoast

I wonder if Dirtfish has led to any increase in competitor count in the PNW. A rally school is probably the best way to get someone seat time. Generally, if you can't afford a rally school, you likely can't afford to rally so they are probably bringing in a pretty good group of potential rallyists.

I am one who went to Dirtfish for 3 day school and bought a car a month later and subsequently competed in 6 events (crashed on my 6th). So, I would say that, yes, rally schools are good feeders for our sport.

I am not sure what the groan was for, John, but I agree if you don't have $2500 for rally school, you probably don't have $8-$10K to build/buy a car and $2k per event

$2500 for a rally school make the total price $10,500 to 12,500

What per-centage of 8000 is 2500?

It is a major escalation of the cost of getting started..

Granted for some it provides them with a lot of encouragement..
But the implications of that kind of paid-for encouragement are troubling.....and questionable.
Sorta like if you give some cutie pie $200 for an hour for "full service" and she screams "Oh baby, oh baby, you are the best ever, oh baby, You're SOOOOooooooOOO BIG!"

And for free I can tell you the message that nearly every body says they carried away from the various schools:
"Left foot braking is indefensible"

and "You must carry your speed/momentum thru the corners"

Those 2 things are very consistently the only thing that people can tell me they specifically learned. or recall. Nationwide. (and you must know I deal with quite literally hundreds of beginner on a yearly basis, or over a few years)

And for beginners, we know how well that advice works---especially for people who believe that now that I paid for this "education", I must Shirley "know all about it".

You heard those young guys in the video throwing those 2 phrases out in a completely jaded and off-hand manner, only thing missing was snapping chewing gum and them saying "Oh baby, oh baby"



Now more math: how many decent second -hand tires could be bought for $2000?
And gas for $500 practicing somewhere safe?

**If, as is obvious, that seat time is the biggest missing piece of the equation,
which is certain to give more seat time in your own car?

More time in car is more.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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john vanlandingham
More time in car is more.

True, but self learning bad habits and reinforcing them is bad.

Also, while I don't work at one of the big rally schools, I can tell you that stuff we teach at BWDS can be very helpful for the beginning ralliest even though we're focused on snow driving...I'd go so far as to say some of the 'understeer prevention/recovery' we hammer home is stuff that will save someone from a wreck or two.

Pretty sure there's a thread here on someone just starting out wrecking a $10k minivan. Then there was the target fixation understeer off the outside of a corner and those are just two examples on this tiny forum in the past couple weeks.

How much does a wreck cost? Time away from driving, money to fix...

Dave

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DaveK

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john vanlandingham
More time in car is more.

True, but self learning bad habits and reinforcing them is bad. AMEN, bro.

Also, while I don't work at one of the big rally schools, I can tell you that stuff we teach at BWDS can be very helpful for the beginning ralliest even though we're focused on snow driving...I'd go so far as to say some of the 'understeer prevention/recovery' we hammer home is stuff that will save someone from a wreck or two.

Pretty sure there's a thread here on someone just starting out wrecking a $10k minivan. Then there was the target fixation understeer off the outside of a corner and those are just two examples on this tiny forum in the past couple weeks.

How much does a wreck cost? Time away from driving, money to fix...

Dave

But I didn't suggest going alone and self-teaching yourself bad habits.
Broadly speaking I am alluding to the theory of the commercialization of knowledge, instruction, coaching, fuck it everything in America--hence the spot on example of a "girl for rent" telling you you are sooooo special.

(Rememeber Dave, I spent important formative years submerged in a culture where CLUBS were the center of activity, where guys who were capable of --and who did---win World Championship rounds led exercises or hit me on the side of the head and said "Shut up that's stupid!.......Now look here, THERE! See how that works?" Where we met guys who worked on the cars---tow rigs--trailers, bikes etc...

All for free, all volunteers.. Cooperative efforts and it was that that let even a schmuck like that attain--relatively speaking---quite high levels of LOTS of needed skills---and was the foundation for life off the track. So the model of everything "must be' a product and for sale as a model of how to make a sport grow to some visibility and viability just seems flat one sided.)

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Whoa whoa whoa. I am not saying that potential competitors SHOULD first go to a rally school, or even that anyone should. I have no plans to ever do so.
What I said was, people that have attended Dirtfish are potential competitors. They have two important things that every rallyist MUST have. Disposable income and interest in having more fun behind the wheel of a rally car.

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Grant Hughes