How to get started in Rally video

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Reamer
#5 on the list.

Absolutly no way you could be fast in an oval track car with out LFB. Maybe talladega but no normal short track. Using the gas and brake at the same time is crucial to fast lap times. Im sure actualy know it translates to rally. I really suck at rally but know LFB is a tool that a driver needs to know how to use if the road calls for it.

are those oval cars FWD, or AWD?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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RWD. I said maybe not talladega but I was wrong.LFB is how they bump draft and go so fast tandum.

May not be needed in rally but this is how you start a race in oval. You hold the gas to keep the engine wicked up hold the brake with your LF to hold the car back from slamming the car in front of you. When they throw the green bam drop the brake and hammer the gas and push his ass. if you dont use your LF you will be 3 cars back before turn one. Really important if they are starting really slow and the engine is camming,chugging bad.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
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Anyone actually been to a rally school where they teach this left foot breaking method for rally?

Tim.

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TronDD
Anyone actually been to a rally school where they teach this left foot breaking method for rally?

Tim.

I haven't. of course.
But I do speak with literally hundreds of guys all around and many of them have.
As I said, the only thing they can recall (so it must have been hammered in knowing as we do how thick our skulls all are) is the emphasis on "the indispensability of Left Foot Braking" and "preserve momentum" or "carry the speed thru the corner"...
Both recipes for disaster.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
TronDD
Anyone actually been to a rally school where they teach this left foot breaking method for rally?

Tim.

Yeah, I did a half day at Dirt Fish and that's what they teach. I know Team O' teaches it too.

The reason I spent the money on the school was to get at least some experience on dirt before I drive my car at a rally. I also needed someone in my ear saying "hey dummy you're doing it wrong" and make me do things a better way. My experience driving somewhat fast on dirt before that was extremely limited. At that point I was just over 20 events in the codriving seat but only had 1 grass o cross as a driver. After the school I felt a LOT better at grass o cross speeds. I'm not sure if I gained any speed on normal roads though.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2013 06:25PM by shiza.

I'm not arguing it's a technique that will make or break you as a rally driver but I'm wondering if the people debating it's usefulness actually know it or how to use it.

It would be really interesting to see an accomplished driver who has never used it be taught and see if makes them faster. For a newbie, though, eh, there is plenty else to worry about, in my opinion.

EDIT: I did 3 days at TON and now that I am starting to compete in rally, I feel like LFB is just a tool I'll hurt myself with.

Tim.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2013 07:05PM by TronDD.

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john vanlandingham
... is the emphasis on "the indispensability of Left Foot Braking" and "preserve momentum" or "carry the speed thru the corner"...
Both recipes for disaster.

How so?
Ultimately, starting the stage at all is a recipe for disaster if you stop and think about it.
Preserving momentum is massively important to setting quick times. I see soooooo many people who throw the anchor out coming into a corner, drive around the corner and then try to put their foot through the floor boards to accelerate in a relatively straight line again. That's anything but a fast way down the stage.

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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TronDD
I'm not arguing it's a technique that will make or break you as a rally driver but I'm wondering if the people debating it's usefulness actually know it or how to use it.

I know that LFB works and is actually fairly simple to get a basic understanding of. I've seem significant pace increases in drivers as they've started using it and I know I can drive significantly faster, and cleaner, when I LFB.
(edit to add, that I've driven mostly RWD (242, 245, 745) and AWD (Subaru) with LFB. I haven't spent much time with LFB on a fwd car.)

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2013 08:42PM by Morison.

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Morison
I know that LFB works and is actually fairly simple to get a basic understanding of. I've seem significant pace increases in drivers as they've started using it and I know I can drive significantly faster, and cleaner, when I LFB.

from my experience it's being taught for the stability aspect as well. they don't really focus on building speed rather technique and control at Team O, speed (should) builds naturally. And they do teach trail braking as well using the left foot.

What's so wrong with maintaining momentum? that's a lot different than throwing it into the corner and hoping for the best.

LFB works ok in the silly fwd impreza but not exclusively. I did get yelled at by an irish guy for trying to do it in a group n evo 2 once (it didn't really work well for that anyway).

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-KTurner
Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel.

If your talking about me knowing its usefullness in rally then no I dont. I do know if theres a tool to make you faster you best better learn it.

If your talking about using it to keep the turbo spooled while cornering Im far from having that mastered.If your talking about using gas and brake to help rotate the car entering then im at least decent for a new to rally guy.

Like i said before in oval you have to lfb to get the car to do things other then go around a corner. I know you all on here think of oval tracks as just that ovals. I dont look at it that way. When you put traffic on that oval it becomes much more like rally. meaning you may have to enter a corner way high and dive to the bottom and shoot back out to the top all before apex to get a good run under or out side of a guy. to do this fast you need lfb.

---

First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

I love left foot braking. Right foot clutching is cool too. Sometimes I use my foot sideways and just step on all three pedals.

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alkun
I love left foot braking. Right foot clutching is cool too. Sometimes I use my foot sideways and just step on all three pedals.

You're drunk, Al. Go home.

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Morison

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john vanlandingham
... is the emphasis on "the indispensability of Left Foot Braking" and "preserve momentum" or "carry the speed thru the corner"...
Both recipes for disaster.

How so?
Ultimately, starting the stage at all is a recipe for disaster if you stop and think about it.
Preserving momentum is massively important to setting quick times. I see soooooo many people who throw the anchor out coming into a corner, drive around the corner and then try to put their foot through the floor boards to accelerate in a relatively straight line again. That's anything but a fast way down the stage.

Morison I really am not interested in debating with you on every fucking thing. You think you learn by talking. And somehow, you think all people's words are of the same weight or import.

After all since you expouse opinions on every subject you must already know everything, same with the punk who "has seen it everything" at 23.
You clearly have never learned the weight of things, what is REALLY decisive, what is "true' but insignificant vs true and REALLY HUGELY important and if you'd ever stop arguing and putting forth you thin opinions, and read what people who know better, you might learn something,.

You believe you know what's needed to go down a stage and I believe you know NEXT to nothing, there is no point in thrashing.
I DON'T see anybody braking particularly HARD especially the 99%. But you

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"see soooooo many people who throw the anchor out".

Same thing looked at, 2 different conclusions.. Must be some reason for the different conclusions since you are always right on everything..even things you have either never done or done superficially.

Rather than argue about how experienced you are as a judge of what is needed everybody might be better served by thinking a little of the work of this guy, who, despite being a Swede seems pretty bright and elucidates in a structured way what I learned in a practical day to day setting in his home country:

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Dr. K. Anders Ericsson is a Swedish psychologist and Conradi Eminent Scholar and Professor of Psychology at Florida State University who is widely recognized as one of the world's leading theoretical and experimental researchers on expertise.[1]

He is the co-editor of The Cambridge Handbook of Expertise and Expert Performance, a volume released in 2006 (Ericsson et al. 2006).

Dr. Ericsson's research with Herbert A. Simon on verbal reports of thinking is summarized in a book Protocol Analysis: Verbal Reports as Data, which was revised in 1993. With Bill Chase he developed the Theory of Skilled Memory based on detailed analyses of acquired exceptional memory performance (Chase, W. G., & Ericsson, K. A. (1982). Skill and working memory. In G. H. Bower (Ed.), The psychology of learning and motivation, (Vol. 16). New York: Academic Press). With Walter Kintsch he extended this theory into long-term memory to account for the superior working memory of expert performers and memory experts (Ericsson & Kintsch 1995)

Currently he studies the cognitive structure of expert performance in domains such as medicine, music, chess, and sports, investigating how expert performers acquire their superior performance through extended deliberate practice (e.g., high concentration practice beyond one's comfort zone). He published an edited book with Jacqui Smith Toward a General Theory of Expertise in 1991 and edited a book The Road to Excellence: The Acquisition of Expert Performance in the Arts and Sciences, Sports and Games that appeared in 1996 as well as a collection edited with Janet Starkes Expert Performance in Sports: Recent Advances in Research on Sport Expertise in 2003.

This would be more rewarding than your opinions too, especially for those intending to drive:


http://www.uvm.edu/~pdodds/files/papers/others/everything/ericsson2007a.pdf

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New research shows that outstanding performance is the product of
years of deliberate practice and coaching, not of any innate talent or
skill.
Back in 1985, Benjamin Bloom, a professor
of education at the University of Chicago, published a landmark book,
Developing Talent in Young People, which examined the critical factors that contribute to talent. He took a deep
retrospective look at the childhoods of 120
elite performers who had won international
competitions or awards in fields ranging from
music and the arts to mathematics and neurology.

Surprisingly, Bloom’s work found no early
indicators that could have predicted the virtuo-
sos’ success. Subsequent research indicating
that there is no correlation between IQ and ex-
pert performance in fields such as chess, music,
sports, and medicine has borne out his find-
ings. The only innate differences that turn out
to be significant—and they matter primarily in
sports—are height and body size.

So what does correlate with success?

One thing emerges very clearly from Bloom’s work:
All the superb performers he investigated had
practiced intensively, had studied with devoted
teachers, and had been supported enthusiastically by their families throughout their developing years. Later research building on
Bloom’s pioneering study revealed that the
amount and quality of practice were key factors in the level of expertise people achieved.

There's a lot more very interesting stuff for you guys, oh except Morison, the "seen it all" kid and a few others who KNOW 20 -30 minutes doing a new something improves things---but heaven forbid one should ask "against what baseline?
And the cumulative few minutes poking indolently at the brake pedal for maneuver results in significant improvements.

Wonder if anybody has heard of the concept related to the above article, "the 10,000 Hour Rule"?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
alkun
I love left foot braking. Right foot clutching is cool too. Sometimes I use my foot sideways and just step on all three pedals.

I replaced all the pedals with brake pedals from automatics so I could use BOTH FEET, on all three, just to beat you...
I know its significantly improving things because I did it for at least 10 minutes so I know all about it now.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2013 10:41AM by john vanlandingham.

You're drunk, John. Go home.