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wvonkessler
Can someone set up a webcam for JVL? Of course, it would go well over the one hour allotment. Maybe a series, like "A Plane is Born" but for a rally car.

Details is what makes a difference between bad junk with built in problems and dead ends and a car a guy can have tons-o-fun and progressively upgrade as he eventually gets better and can afford better stuff.
details like the guy in the comments section saying he bought a Festering Iver for $200 and went racing----but left out that he came not merely last place but last place and 20 full minutes slower than the 2nd to last--and maybe 45 minutes after the winning time of 50 minutes.....then DNFed on his other 2 times out with the car....maybe the little tiny car is unsuitable....maybe he had fun, but maybe he would have had a LOT more fun with something that works better.
The difference between the "good for last place by 20 minutes" and 2 DNF car, then no more entries, might be found in the details.

Of course unsupported assertions and one liner claims is the norm for conversation both in the Real World and everywhere else now.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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Wow I did not know the fiesta was the new golf. Ha.

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ryanfay
Wow I did not know the fiesta was the new golf. Ha.

Length, width, wheelbase, type of construction in the suspension ( [ shaped rear beam like VW) , HP, torque, weight, only difference is its 1600cc and the US Golfs started 1800cc. And maybe the rpm where peak torque and HP are at..

Good cars but hardly the "affordable" thing these guys are casually saying they are...
You got 4-6k for a crashed on in Alabama?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
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Quote
john vanlandingham

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ryanfay
Wow I did not know the fiesta was the new golf. Ha.

Length, width, wheelbase, type of construction in the suspension ( [ shaped rear beam like VW) , HP, torque, weight, only difference is its 1600cc and the US Golfs started 1800cc. And maybe the rpm where peak torque and HP are at..

Good cars but hardly the "affordable" thing these guys are casually saying they are...
You got 4-6k for a crashed on in Alabama?

You just described like every Shitbox Hyundai built in the last decade. Only, they're cheaper (2012 Jersey-flood-kilt Veloster goin' for like 3500.... sell the interior an' drop in a Theta II turbo an' 5-speed....)

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Parfois, on fait pas semblant!

I am:
I know:
I am from:

Nobody.
Nothing.
Nowhere.

Those flood victim cars actually have shit in them.

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DaveK
I "listened" to the whole think while working, so maybe missed a few things.

Does $120k for a SP car seem absurd to anyone else? I would think with that kind of $ you could have a top privateer Open class car instead...wouldn't hold a candle to the 3 pro cars, but seems to me if you wanted to spend that kind of money, SP contingency isn't a huge factor.

Dave

That's Gary Gill's car. As far as I know it was built by Grahm (ex prodrive engineer) at Autosport Engineering or whatever? That thing is a top of the line SP car built to max specs. Talking like $20k suspension, tilton pedal box on the floor, full chassis prep, really good brakes, yada yada yada. When you start building an SP car to the terminal limits (take example the ex-SRTUSA SP cars) you get into a very expensive build.

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Aaron Luptak

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john vanlandingham
Yeah particularly the unstated but explicit assumption that a person will "work they way up" inevitably to a turbo 4wd car...

Actually, I'm pretty sure either Wyatt or Billy (or both?) pretty explicitly said that a person will want to work their way up to an open class car.

Comparing the Fiesta and a Mk2 GTi kind of makes sense, at least until you consider that the GTi was rated for as much as 130bhp (at 2400 lbs), and the Fiesta is about 120bhp @ ~2600 lbs...

Also, as one would expect:
* you have to learn LFB to be fast
* FWD is always (ALWAYS!) faster than RWD. (I realize that current Australia results do actually bear this out to some extent, but the differences between the two are still a fraction of the time that both Reeves and Orders were putting into most of the field.)

With the Fiesta once you take out all the stuff that weighs too much are pretty much in the 2300lb range I'd guess with the M-Sport T45 cage. I've never seen them on the scales, but the R2's by the spec sheets weigh in at 1020kg or something, so that's 2244lbs or so. So while the Fiesta is down a bit on power with lower displacement it's the same basic suspension design (struts front, twist beam rear) as the GTi.

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Nubby
Posting that video on Jalopnik is like posting a 1 hour instructional video on how to get into med school on a site that caters to fans of TV medical dramas.

We're talking about the same site that keeps talking about Caswell and his "$500 BMW rally car" that is worth far more than that.

I couldn't find an online article to it, but Grassroots Motorsports actually did a cost breakdown of his car and it's a standard ~$15,000 car that everybody else is running in. The only thing that was $500 was the starting shell. There were some "freebies" that he considered as "zero cost" that were parts from his other race cars. Stuff like the M3 motor/trans and seats if I recall.

By the GRM tally they had it still over $10,000 which is why with all the "freebie" stuff it's more of a $15,000 car.

It was a nice video that they did, but I feel they lost out on a lot of things. For fucks sake I need to just get off my ass and start making youtube videos that don't spit out bullshit information. I'm tired of people getting fed bad info...

I've talked about doing an entire tech series but we can never find the real motivator for doing so.

I'm really curious where people find an hour to watch this video? Step 1 to building a rally car: Get off the computer and into the garage. Which is what I plan to do once this thesis is done. Speaking of, time to run more code, that function just finished...

---

Grant Hughes

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BillyElliot
I couldn't find an online article to it, but Grassroots Motorsports actually did a cost breakdown of [Caswell's] car and it's a standard ~$15,000 car that everybody else is running in. The only thing that was $500 was the starting shell.

Yeah, that's how I read the original story:

Quote
that story
Bill Caswell, an unemployed Chicago racing freak, entered the Mexico round of the World Rally Championship in a 1991 BMW 318i that he found on Craigslist. The car cost $500.

Let go of your indignation, man. Just let it go. He bought a car for $500 and then added racing stuff to it. Isn't that enough of an interesting and fun story? He's lying because there wasn't a P&L and Balance Sheet attached as Appendix A and B? Besides, it's just as accurate as half the other press releases that are put out. A man bought a cheap car and went racing. Relax.

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BillyElliot
For fucks sake I need to just get off my ass and start making youtube videos that don't spit out bullshit information.

Yep, you do. I made a video this morning, it took me about 15 minutes. Go make one. We'll give you 24 hours. The worst that could happen is you learn why it's not good, so that you can make another one.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2013 01:46PM by Anders Green.

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Anders Green

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BillyElliot
I couldn't find an online article to it, but Grassroots Motorsports actually did a cost breakdown of [Caswell's] car and it's a standard ~$15,000 car that everybody else is running in. The only thing that was $500 was the starting shell.

Yeah, that's how I read the original story:

Quote
that story
Bill Caswell, an unemployed Chicago racing freak, entered the Mexico round of the World Rally Championship in a 1991 BMW 318i that he found on Craigslist. The car cost $500.

Let go of your indignation, man. Just let it go. He bought a car for $500 and then added racing stuff to it. Isn't that enough of an interesting and fun story? He's lying because there wasn't a P&L and Balance Sheet attached as Appendix A and B? Besides, it's just as accurate as half the other press releases that are put out. A man bought a cheap car and went racing. Relax.

Quote
BillyElliot
For fucks sake I need to just get off my ass and start making youtube videos that don't spit out bullshit information.

Yep, you do. I made a video this morning, it took me about 15 minutes. Go make one. We'll give you 24 hours. The worst that could happen is you learn why it's not good, so that you can make another one.

Anders

The lie is the "entered the Mexico round of the World Rally Championship"
The moral bankruptcy is that he lets the lie written by others continue and thereby perpetuates the lie.

It is bullshit... equivalent to entering the rallycross held at the fairgrounds at some National rally and claiming and allowing press reports "Ignatz Schwartz enter the US Champignonskit Rally and raced head to head with Kenvis Blockstranarini in their $450,000 soooooper cars "

That is called a lie. Not mere exaggeration.
And it pisses in the face of every single person who ever coughed up the money to enter a WRC.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Your analogy fails in that one does actually enter and run all the WRC stages, including the start ramp, super special through tunnels, etc.
Was there some internet hyping going on? Sure? I'd be willing to say that in the long term, Bill will have contributed more to the health of US rallying than Ken Block or Travis Pastrana has. At least his fans are kinda gear heads, even if most of them I've met seem to be broke college students. But those guys always graduate some day.

---

Grant Hughes

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NoCoast
At least his fans are kinda gear heads, even if most of them I've met seem to be broke college students. But those guys always graduate some day.

And ruin CORE for the rest of us. (Agree with your thoughts on Carl needing to be a better 'mud cop' though.)

Dave

Quote
NoCoast
Your analogy fails in that one does actually enter and run all the WRC stages, including the start ramp, super special through tunnels, etc.
Was there some internet hyping going on? Sure? I'd be willing to say that in the long term, Bill will have contributed more to the health of US rallying than Ken Block or Travis Pastrana has. At least his fans are kinda gear heads, even if most of them I've met seem to be broke college students. But those guys always graduate some day.

We run all the "National" stages when we run the Regional/club/divisional rally run behind and separate from the "National"...

Can we claim "I enerer the National Champ Peen shit event "..

Well yeah we can claim it, and yeah we can compare times and chuckle how bad a lot of the "National Champ Peen" guys we're stomping, but we are not, and he was not "In the WRC" not is some unhomoplogated pile of crap..

I try not to hang out with broke ass college kids who are impressed by shameless exaggerations that are lies, so I can't say how that has "done anything" for US rallying..

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
NoCoast
Your analogy fails in that one does actually enter and run all the WRC stages, including the start ramp, super special through tunnels, etc.
Was there some internet hyping going on? Sure? I'd be willing to say that in the long term, Bill will have contributed more to the health of US rallying than Ken Block or Travis Pastrana has. At least his fans are kinda gear heads, even if most of them I've met seem to be broke college students. But those guys always graduate some day.

Not actually true, we only run the second half of the day on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday of the event. Not downplaying it, it's the best rally experience in North America, but we do about half of the stage miles the WRC cars do.

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PurplePanda

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NoCoast
Your analogy fails in that one does actually enter and run all the WRC stages, including the start ramp, super special through tunnels, etc.
Was there some internet hyping going on? Sure? I'd be willing to say that in the long term, Bill will have contributed more to the health of US rallying than Ken Block or Travis Pastrana has. At least his fans are kinda gear heads, even if most of them I've met seem to be broke college students. But those guys always graduate some day.

Not actually true, we only run the second half of the day on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday of the event. Not downplaying it, it's the best rally experience in North America, but we do about half of the stage miles the WRC cars do.

And it is sanctioned differently, named differently, advertised differently, operates under different rules for eligibility for both cars and drivers, and scored differently..
Different event..
Doubtless its a fun and fantastic event, but it is a bare-faced lie for Caswell to say he "Entered the WRC and competed against $400,000 WRC cars"
And shameless (oooo big surprise!) to not clarify the difference.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.