Nameless Rally Cloquallum Stage

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HiTempguy
somehow having almost done the most events out of anyone here...

You don't really think that do you?

Tell me you don't really think that.

If you really think that then you really are a dumb kid.

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Doivi Clarkinen

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heymagic
The questioned main offender also refused to relinquish his starting place later when on 3 wheels at the start of a stage. I heard about it seconds too late and the 2nd and 3rd place cars both caught him before the stage end. Derik passed him in even heavier dust due to the missing wheel and car dragging. ODriscoll/manspeaker caught him but couldn't pass due to the dust...that's 4 minutes in 12ish miles. I tried to wave him over with regulation stop clock sign at spectator, but might as well have been banner guard as I was totally ignored. Probably not an issue but I personally won't accept an entry from this competitor in the future, just so we are all on the same page.

Good to hear, Gene.

Just to give everyone a little further insight to his attitude, here is a reply on FB by Song when asked what the penalties he got were for:

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Tingwu Song: Supposedly I blocked two competitors behind me, I was wounded with half the car dragging on the floor and a mile long dust trail, I kept looking back the whole ss6, saw the BMW and let him pass, I barely have control to remain on the road, and the guy behind me puts in an complaint against me for "intentionally blocking him". Yesterday at 10:43am via mobile · Like

Shows a complete lack of regard for his fellow competitors if you ask me. He seriously can't understand what he did wrong or why he should get penalized. Maybe if you can't control your three wheeled car you should pull the fuck over, but no, it's all about him.

The ironic thing is if he had just stopped and changed the flat on stage before it did any damage it would have cost him what, two and half, three minutes? A lot less time than it cost after he tore the car all up, had to start the next stage on three wheels (well, he didn't have to but he did), delayed other competitors, and wasn't able to compete on Sunday. So not only is he not very considerate, he's not very smart.

I also heard that they loaded the passenger side of the car up with a crap load of big rocks to help balance the car. Any guesses how smart of an idea that would have seemed if they had rolled?

From what I gathered from Tracy and Chris, the penalties were for Balking on the last stage. Song was asked if Chris could go infront since he was on three wheels, and he said no.

They did load the car with rocks from what our service crew had seen when they rolled in. Car was a mess. Constantine came to our crew asking if we had a new sub frame. lol I know thats his job and he has to find the parts if possible, but that car was a mess. I don't know if the damage started with a flat. I was under the impression that it was suspension damage and broken stuff that they decided to drag to the finish.

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Intercom and electronics dude. www.zerodegreec.ca

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Morison

I almost hate to say it, but there are two or three ways RallySafe could have prevented this situation in general and the accident in particular. The cost of the damage to the two cars alone would have paid for the system on the event.

equally there are a half-dozen ways OTHER human things could have prevented this.

At no cost but the effort required to think...

Perhaps primary might be to remind people, even people who think they are fast that there is no honor in cheating.... Driving thru the tapes once, could be a mistake/confusion/excitability.

Driving thru a second time.....

Not reporting, either driver OR co-driver---that they had mowed down banner guard TWICE...

Choosing to do the right thing costs nothing, low tech, no batteries to wear out, it works where ever you are.

IF some people who maybe think they're hot shit can't be troubled to do the right thing, and costs others SS miles, and DNFs and repair expenses, there are low tech, free ways to assist them in understanding why they should do the right thing, and why they should be honest..

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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Doivi Clarkinen

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HiTempguy
somehow having almost done the most events out of anyone here...

You don't really think that do you?

Tell me you don't really think that.

If you really think that then you really are a dumb kid.

Dave, he really thinks he's "done everything".. he is a deluded person. Scary to think they let him drive---if you ask me..

With guys like Adam "Done it all' and this Ting-wu and Leo with their antics down here, seems there a bad turn occurring in my old second favorite country...(After France) We should call it "The Rise of the Underdeprived"

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

When i went to pick up my car, i found their tire/wheel. it was pretty trashed. then we found the shock/spring later down the road. we drop nawatzel south to get thru to the start of north after green light went thru. his whole ordeal may have started with that baby head on south at the first 90 left/90 right section.

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john vanlandingham
With guys like Adam "Done it all' and this Ting-wu and Leo with their antics down here, seems there a bad turn occurring in my old second favorite country...(After France) We should call it "The Rise of the Underdeprived"

Ummm... not that facts matter to you but Leo isn't 'really' Canadian and Ting-wu has ablsolutely zero connection to Canada (other than his car was formerly driven by a Canadian)

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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john vanlandingham
Choosing to do the right thing costs nothing, low tech, no batteries to wear out, it works where ever you are.

Agreed. Doing the right thing should always be stressed.
But, in this case, who should they report that they removed banner tape to?
Stop at the next radio point to tell them?
Tell the people at the finish?
What do you tell them ... you probably can't clearly identify where the problem was in the first place.
In either case, there will still be a handful of cars on the stage without warning, who would find them selves in the same situation. NOTHING would have changed for Doug and/or Goodwin, as an example.

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john vanlandingham
...there are low tech, free ways to assist them in understanding why they should do the right thing, and why they should be honest..

But the reality is sometimes doing the right thing isn't going to make a difference.

If two rally cars had hit head-on at speed, three corners from the junction, and incapacitated both crew - how long do you think it would have taken to first figure out there is a problem at all and then to find them?

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

John, enough. Start your own anti-canadian thread, stay out of this discussion as you have nothing to contribute it seems but poison.

We can't blame anyone for the wreck other than the two cars involved. It may have been the result of other actions but it was only caused by both of the participants to some degree.

The banner guard thing pisses me off a little, but that stuff happens. I've seen it before, I'll see it again. Running the stage in first position with such a wounded car, endangering fellow competitors, not how I was raised in this sport. Maybe I'm too old and outdated in my thinking. If there was an illustration in the rules of unsportsman like conduct that would be a candidate.

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Morison

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john vanlandingham
With guys like Adam "Done it all' and this Ting-wu and Leo with their antics down here, seems there a bad turn occurring in my old second favorite country...(After France) We should call it "The Rise of the Underdeprived"

Ummm... not that facts matter to you but Leo isn't 'really' Canadian and Ting-wu has ablsolutely zero connection to Canada (other than his car was formerly driven by a Canadian)

Sorry about Ting Wu, just another rich guy. ---Which seems to be the where a LOT of the troubles start..


As for Leo:
What LICENCE is in his pockets?

Out of 40 events listed on his site 34 are where?
Where is his domicile?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Banner tape should've/could've/would've worked. But it didn't.

Rich foreign guy may possibly acted like a steaming pile of dog crap and shortcut the stage and/or ignored an official request to stop by a rally official and/or possibly refused to move back in the starting position due to MISSING A FUCKING CORNER OF THE CAR.

Sounds like shit happened, fortunately it was only metal damage. In the future, use Rally America banner tape, as it's known to stop speeding rally cars in their tracks as opposed to that cheap DANGER tape you get at Home Depot.

Also, Albertans are like Texans, they think they know everything. Or something like that.

And stop

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

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john vanlandingham
What LICENCE is in his pockets?

You ask like there is only one answer to that question...

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john vanlandingham
Where is his domicile?

Haven't a clue.
Don't know about citizenship either...

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Those of us of a certain vintage, and you know who you are, should remember the number one rule.

MILEAGE TAKES PRECEDENCE !

Co- drivers who whine about juggling 2 books need to work harder at integrating your notes with the route book. It is to your benefit to know where you are. It is to everyone's safety that you be able to inform the proper folks where the problem is. If you are the one injured, time is of the essence. Try and learn from this and become a stronger Co-Driver.

Drivers, you must listen!!!

I would also like to add that it would be a real good idea to actually READ the RULES. This would apply to everyone involved, including the organizers. NASA's rule book addresses Special Stage Direction (article 2.16.6) page 27. Short version, my words....One way only and grounds for exclusion.

I am also dismayed at the lack of concern displayed for Max and Steve. That was a serious hit. And for the offenders to not even come by in Service and ask if they were OK, or apologize, or even offer a sympathy beer is lame.

I, too, would like to Thank Gene and everyone else for putting on a good show.
I didn't envy Gene's call on not scoring that stage. I didn't agree with it. 75% of the field completed the stage correctly. Those that didn't should pay the price. THAT would be the real lesson and serious re-enforcement of paying attention to your co-driver and the mileages.

Off my soap box and back in the corner listening

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Diamond Jim
Co-Driver in the Double Zero course opening car
Charter Member of O.U.C.H.
Organized Union of Cat Herders

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Jim Breazeale
Those of us of a certain vintage, and you know who you are, should remember the number one rule.

MILEAGE TAKES PRECEDENCE !

Co- drivers who whine about juggling 2 books need to work harder at integrating your notes with the route book. It is to your benefit to know where you are. It is to everyone's safety that you be able to inform the proper folks where the problem is. If you are the one injured, time is of the essence. Try and learn from this and become a stronger Co-Driver.

Drivers, you must listen!!!

I would also like to add that it would be a real good idea to actually READ the RULES. This would apply to everyone involved, including the organizers. NASA's rule book addresses Special Stage Direction (article 2.16.6) page 27. Short version, my words....One way only and grounds for exclusion.

I am also dismayed at the lack of concern displayed for Max and Steve. That was a serious hit. And for the offenders to not even come by in Service and ask if they were OK, or apologize, or even offer a sympathy beer is lame.

I, too, would like to Thank Gene and everyone else for putting on a good show.
I didn't envy Gene's call on not scoring that stage. I didn't agree with it. 75% of the field completed the stage correctly. Those that didn't should pay the price. THAT would be the real lesson and serious re-enforcement of paying attention to your co-driver and the mileages.

Off my soap box and back in the corner listening

Plus eleventy-seven! well put.. Nobody wants Nazi-like discipline but there's serious serious both potential and actual consequences to driving the wrong way..
Just damn lucky that Max and the Subie were going slow enough that it was only sheet-metal and not bodily damage..

Fat lotta good it is having rules if they officials are too worried about losing entries if they apply the rules as written... a stark reminder now and then makes people slow down and think about consequences...
sure we're all out to have fun, some want to spend obscene amounts of money, that's their choice, but it seems inevitable when people spend crazy amounts that they think what they're doing is important. And that they're important...and too important to show the OK sign, too important to pick up their triangles, too important to report they mowed down banner guard...TWICE....and too important to change a tire.
And too important to think what their whim decisions have for effect on others who want their occasional fun times to be fun...

Poor Max. poor Rabbit, poor Subie.

Wonder if it's too late for some kind of disciplinary action or a "Notification that we have the eye on you so keep your nose clean" type thing?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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Jim Breazeale
I would also like to add that it would be a real good idea to actually READ the RULES. This would apply to everyone involved, including the organizers. NASA's rule book addresses Special Stage Direction (article 2.16.6) page 27. Short version, my words....One way only and grounds for exclusion.

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I didn't envy Gene's call on not scoring that stage. I didn't agree with it. 75% of the field completed the stage correctly. Those that didn't should pay the price. THAT would be the real lesson and serious re-enforcement of paying attention to your co-driver and the mileages.

As far as I know, no competitor was on stage when they went reverse direction, so no one was in violation of 2.16.6.

Competitors occasionally miss turns and drive off of the stage road. How are they supposed to get back on stage if they can't go in reverse direction? Getting back to where you left the stage and re-entering the stage is one of those windows of risk in rally (particularly since, if you went off course, the next competitor might do it as well).

Car 38 was attempting to re-enter the stage at the point that they exited it. Car 758 missed the turn as well (but, at least, realized he missed the turn and was on his brakes). According to car 758's co-driver, both cars were off of the stage road when they collided.

If the stage had not been thrown, how would you have penalized the competitors who shorted the course? The NASA rule is "5 minutes for a flagrant violation of purposely shorting or deviating from the course". (Almost?) no one purposely shorted the course.

alan

Just want to mention I did get an email from car 38. They wanted to touch basis with me and offer an apology. I basically told him, mistakes were made all around. no hard feelings.