Nameless Rally Cloquallum Stage

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Doug Heredos
I would expect your note for a particular corner to be all the information that the driver needs unless you get lost.

Like anything, there are a lot of variables, but in general you're right. Noted distances would be generally only used when getting back in the notes, which is why the 'recovery point' is best a few corners before the 'important' note (which would also have a distance on it.)
BUT... in a situation where there are similar features and one with a significant, difference - think about that stage by the reserve on the coast: five crests in a row and the last one is into a downhill tightening corner. THAT crest would have a distance on it and I'd be referencing the distance coming into it to confirm the right crest. In all of this you also need to have a good understanding of if your odo is gaining (wheelspin) or loosing (locking up) distance on stage. That should be fairly consistent with the same car/driver combo and is easier figured out at the end of a stage.

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Doug Heredos
We get an extra reference here in the PNW- Every instruction in the routebook gets a corresponding stake and arrow (with instruction number) on course. So, if for whatever reason you have no clue where you are, you can drive blind until you see the next instruction arrow and if you have that referenced in your notes, you're back on track.

Been there. I got totally lost in the Jemba notes, pulled out the route book, referenced the next arrow we passed, found the mileage on the next instruction and picked up the notes there... juggling books like mad, but got there eventually.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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hoche

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tipo158
We put out a call in a few different places for additional scoring assistance at the beginning of the week and before the rally. I had a few people asking about volunteer opportunities after worker registration closed and I told them that I was looking for help with scoring. Guess people just want to work on stage. At least one of my recce volunteers from Olympus was able to come out and help me with scoring on Sunday.

In the "shutting the barn door after the cows have left" category, given sufficient lead time I probably would have been willing to fly up and help out had I known you were shorthanded there. I can't work PNW events on a regular basis, but I've worked about one a year for the last seven years.

Yeah, more in the "shutting the barn door after the cows have left" category, as I was driving home, I figured how to make things work with the resources that I had.

Over the weekend, I posted some stuff on FB that I think came across as unintentionally negative against the scoring software. A lot of it was pilot error, but some of it was tasks that were harder than I think necessary. I think that it is a good system and I have sent Anders comments and suggestions on it to make it better (but I hope that he doesn't look at them until he is through the situation with his family).

If anyone else here works scoring and uses or is thinking about using Anders' software and wants to chat about it, let me know.

alan

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tipo158

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hoche

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tipo158
We put out a call in a few different places for additional scoring assistance at the beginning of the week and before the rally. I had a few people asking about volunteer opportunities after worker registration closed and I told them that I was looking for help with scoring. Guess people just want to work on stage. At least one of my recce volunteers from Olympus was able to come out and help me with scoring on Sunday.

In the "shutting the barn door after the cows have left" category, given sufficient lead time I probably would have been willing to fly up and help out had I known you were shorthanded there. I can't work PNW events on a regular basis, but I've worked about one a year for the last seven years.

Yeah, more in the "shutting the barn door after the cows have left" category, as I was driving home, I figured how to make things work with the resources that I had.

Over the weekend, I posted some stuff on FB that I think came across as unintentionally negative against the scoring software. A lot of it was pilot error, but some of it was tasks that were harder than I think necessary. I think that it is a good system and I have sent Anders comments and suggestions on it to make it better (but I hope that he doesn't look at them until he is through the situation with his family).

If anyone else here works scoring and uses or is thinking about using Anders' software and wants to chat about it, let me know.

alan

Can it be manipulated to generate progressive , stage by stage , 2 column results ya know, sorta like the entire rest of the world has somehow figured is a good clear standardized format? You know, a standardized format that allows me to follow a rally even if the results are in CZECH or Russian using Cyrillic or even goddam Chinese which I can read a total of about 10 words?


And Anders, should you happen to be reading this.
FIRST THINGS FIRST is a good principle.
First thing is a clear simple, standardised format...


Maybe you aren't familiar, I should not assume you are--- so here:
http://www.ewrc-results.com/results.php?e=6536&s=38541&t=Acropolis-Rally-2013

THEN all the extra stuff, but FIRST....
Show you more reactive than the "other guys" who persist in their useless, illogical unusable confused SHIT scoring junk forever.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

My computer died. Im thinking when i did the rear disc conversion i got rid of the sensor and didnt realize it. so we used my car odo for recce, since we got waaaaay lost on the kennedy creek stage for recce. match my odo to the route book. my codriver only used the route book when we would get lost during recce (which happened a few times, ill admit). he wrote all his own notes start to finish and marked certain notes with instruction numbers since the computer was no go. he called it, crest, right 4 (i see doug had a r3), still he called it. i was lookin for the evidence of the turn ahead. then called it a second time which told me it was right there. but the no banner in front of me confused me. ill admit i hesitated, but seeing the marker last second and the broken banner tape in the bushes even later, i locked up the brakes. i cant say who else did what before me. but the guy that hit us, he obviously had the right notes as well. he was tryin to correct. i still stand by what i said earlier. i felt the instruction marker was too close. it seemed to be almost on the turn. i talked to a couple codrivers who agreed. and i think my service guys agreed when we went to go pick it up. i get the fact you need to trust your notes and your codriver. and the technicality of the routes. i really get that now. but the no banner (read as hesitation) and the lateness of the marker (as i felt) added to my demise. I was not fast by any means, but still at a speed over recce speed, that corner came up fast even when called. i have no ill will towards the other guy or towards the folks that marked the route. really it comes down to me, im a newb and i blew a corner.

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Morison

Been there. I got totally lost in the Jemba notes, pulled out the route book, referenced the next arrow we passed, found the mileage on the next instruction and picked up the notes there... juggling books like mad, but got there eventually.

We were lucky at this rally in that the instruction stakes (and some arrows/instructions numbers) were in place during recce. So, we could reference mileage on recce and then write the instruction number in the notes.

Writing the mileage in the notes is also a great idea if you trust your recce car odo.

Max: Don't sweat it. A lot of crap happens at a rally and that's part of what makes it fun! I hope your car isn't too damaged to keep you out for too long.

Doug

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Doug Heredos
Max: Don't sweat it. A lot of crap happens at a rally and that's part of what makes it fun! I hope your car isn't too damaged to keep you out for too long.

Doug

well, once i quit sulking, ill get out there and get the car off the trailer. then ill tear into it and see whats going on. i do have an entire spare 83 shell sittin outside. i did wrap a chain around a tree and yank the front out a bit Sund. But, car is still on trailer. I have no clue what im doin when it comes to cutting and splicing, so ill be buggin you folks and prob my uncle Jim and Robert.

Just curious, anyone have any pics of me in the two stages i did run? I was slow enough you could not have missed me.

I viewed the offending corner/straightaway/shortcut with Ray Hocker between runnings of the stage. It was just another corner. Arrow was visable and correctly pointing. BUT without banner guard being up and tire tracks to follow one might honestly think the corner was still a bit ahead. Not all teams made recce or two passes. Will and Toni missed it and they are arguably the sharpest team running.

Timing issues and scoring issues will be worked on. A new system and one very over whelmed (but awesome) Alan is an easy fix.

LET ME SHOUT...COMPETITORS..do not keep coming over to the scoring car and asking when will it be done. Every interruption is a delay of twice the time. Seriously. Stay away unless asked for info.

Derik..frickin awesome. Hendo..the same to you. Mark Tabor, wow! Atta boy!! Everyone, a million thanks, you brought a tremendous amount of rally joy back into my life.

We're working on next years plan already...

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Racinkid13
. I have no clue what im doin when it comes to cutting and splicing, so ill be buggin you folks and prob my uncle Jim and Robert.

On both:

1) clean
2) yank powerplant
3) pull fenders
4) REALLY clean
NOW MEASURE and double check, write shit down in a clear diagram
5) find ALL the spot welds
6) on parts bent, drill out all the spot welds, throw junk away
7) on donor car, drill out all the spot welds on donor parts
8) tack in place and measure and measure and use straight fenders and hood and grill as guides
9) plug weld, moving to different areas so the car doesn't banana
10) happy car is straight and tacked, go stitch weld. 1/2" weld every 1.5"

Basically "File to fit, paint to match"

then No1 becomes PRACTICE

And the sifu did descend from the mountain and said "You must become one with the spot weld drill if you are to attain enlightenment and are a privateer"

WTF is a sifu?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sifu

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I always enjoy pulling up to a control, ready with my stage notes in hand, route book stashed, and they say, FYI there is a car off at instruction 37. "Do you know the mileage?" No, instruction 37. Get out route book, find mileage, try to find that in stage notes...
One thing that I don't like honestly is having two books. I think if you have stage notes, route book should only have transits and that issue would go away.

Recce and own notes I can easily see many if not most not having adequate mileage and/or other markers. I know that the (spectators) or (sign) things in stage notes have helped me get back on track when I lost place and our odo was unreliable. Very very quickly learned codriving that the worst thing that you can possibly do is try to get back on the notes without something of this sort. "Okay, this might be a L3, (yeah, yeah, okay, over crest, year, okay, I'm on!) and this should be a L4 (yeah, that seems right, definitely on) over crest 200 into L6, (oh shit actually was over crest into R3, we're fucked.)"

---

Grant Hughes

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heymagic
Timing issues and scoring issues will be worked on. A new system and one very over whelmed (but awesome) Alan is an easy fix.

Most of the time, it was just a matter of being extremely busy entering data. There were a LOT of control times to be entered into the system and, in the absence of someone else to enter time card or log data (which I mentioned at the time that others could do simultaneously - I was entering times through my iPhone after the Mifi stopped working with my laptop), it was just something to be plowed through as quickly as possible.

I was overwhelmed after all of the times got entered, the scores were calculated and almost every competitor still had penalties. This was because the scoring software breaks out a given penalty into each set of scores (and the rally had three sets (the two-day scores, the one-day scores and the one-day novice scores)), so I knew that I was looking at least 100 penalties to try to resolve and no time to do it in.

This is probably more "how the sausage gets made" than most of you want to know, but I think it is good for competitors to know what is going on behind the scenes to make events happen.

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LET ME SHOUT...COMPETITORS..do not keep coming over to the scoring car and asking when will it be done. Every interruption is a delay of twice the time. Seriously. Stay away unless asked for info.

This is why we should have a CRO at events.

The competitors that I spoke with actually had scoring issues. If Scoring is just hanging around, asking to get a stage time checked is no big deal. But, at the end of the rally, when Scoring is trying to get all of the control times entered into the scoring system, if there is no CRO, competitors need to turn in a written request for review.

The scoring software doesn't take stage times; it takes control passage times and does the math. So Scoring can't just change the stage time. Scoring needs to find the time card to figure out which number didn't get entered correctly and possibly find the log sheets for the control to confirm what the scribbles on the time card says and go to a different section of the software for updating time card times. I had instances where the time card, the stop control log and the flying finish logs disagreed with each other and resolving stuff like that takes time.

BTW, I spent some time at a Stop Control and I am surprised that those kinds of discrepancies don't happen more of the time. I think it is amazing that those folk can get it right so often under the conditions that they are doing things.

alan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2013 03:39PM by tipo158.

Thanks, Alan, for taking on this difficult and generally thankless task. We saw some really weird things on our time card at two different controls - and I know several others did, too. Couldn't have made your job any easier!

You seemed to handle it all OK- every time I saw you, you appeared to be in a good mood!

Doug

Thank you everyone who volunteered and helped make this happen! Big thank you to Robert Colbertson and Arnode (sp?) for servicing for us. You guys did awesome! And Huge thank you to Max's lovely wife for having delicious sandwiches and treats ready for us at service. We'd have starved to death without her! I had a great time, learned a lot and found plenty more things that I need to work on one of them would be the acute corners. My car loves to plow.


Found some great pictures by Mike Shaw of Nameless...
Piccies

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ChrisKobi
Thank you everyone who volunteered and helped make this happen! Big thank you to Robert Colbertson and Arnode (sp?) for servicing for us. You guys did awesome! And Huge thank you to Max's lovely wife for having delicious sandwiches and treats ready for us at service. We'd have starved to death without her! I had a great time, learned a lot and found plenty more things that I need to work on one of them would be the acute corners. My car loves to plow.


Found some great pictures by Mike Shaw of Nameless...
Piccies

Might not plow as bad if you bothered to spin off the 3 nuts at the top of the strut, and the ONE pinch bolt at the bottom and installed the struts you had weeks beforehand, and the ONE bolt at the bottom and the ONE nut at the top for the rear shocks which you decided not to install....

I am confused with how, with all the willing and able people, that you could not get the struts and shocks on with weeks available to do it.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

oh come on John, without suffering with the crappy for a while, how can you really appreciate the good stuff?


Chris, glad to see you made it all the way through in good shape, it was fun servicing next to you and your crack commando all-star crew.