I stand corrected. Neither car was on course, and "they" did finally offer an apology, by email.
My most humble apologies.

---

Diamond Jim
Co-Driver in the Double Zero course opening car
Charter Member of O.U.C.H.
Organized Union of Cat Herders

Alan, you're a smart feller and I think we're all grateful you choose to do what you do in the trenches for rally round these parts. Thanks.

---

Jay Woodward
Snohomish, WA
'90 Mazdog Frankenprotege
Chronologically, 46...

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Jay
Alan, you're a smart feller and I think we're all grateful you choose to do what you do in the trenches for rally round these parts. Thanks.

If I were a smart feller, I would have figured out how to do the Nameless Rally scoring without the huge delays before the rally rather than two days after the rally.

As far as doing stuff in the trenches, a couple of weeks ago my wife said that I "need to be back in the co-driver seat". Wondering if I should take that ball and run with it ...

alan

HAR! And some schmuck will show up to a rallysprint not realizing he was s'posed to have a codriver, and be all "uuuuhh, now wut" and you'll say "why not, I'll codrive for yaz"

---

Jay Woodward
Snohomish, WA
'90 Mazdog Frankenprotege
Chronologically, 46...

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Jim Breazeale
I stand corrected. Neither car was on course, and "they" did finally offer an apology, by email.
My most humble apologies.

"they" are noobs too and while not maybe doing things exactly like we would have are not evil people. They were planning on leaving as soon as they hit the trailer not matter what due to commintments back in Idaho. They emailed me as soon as they got back requesting contact with Max.

As to the stage scrubbing, we couldn't come up with an elegant decision. A ham radio reported 13 cars not going past their position . Apparently those 13 took the shortcut. Now we could have penalized all of those 13 , well 11 actually, but what if the radio was mistaken? What if a door number was miss-read? What if a competitor denied it? We didn't have an actual checkpoint with visual confirmation duties or a camera. The next issue became the wording in the NRS rules about deliberate and flagrant short cutting, certainly not the case in all or maybe any. How to adjust the scores fairly? Add the same time to every 'offender'? The faster cars likely would have saved more time than a slower car. Some cars came out in front of the car in front of them, some didn't. Some cars ate dust they wouldn't have otherwise for the remainder of the stage. No real way to make that fair that I could see. it was discussed a lot behind the scenes and the best decision was the one I hate the most, canceling a stage. Most feedback seems to support that, still doesn't make it a good decision. If it had been more contained, smaller number of offenders, more definite proof, I would rather see a severe penalty (if allowable) for the lead offender and time adjustments for the rest, but no way to actually prove anyone did other than make an honest mistake .

I'm not the brightest guy in the world, my crystal ball was covered with dust, the chicken bones got tossed out at breakfast . I dearly would have loved a more clear and fair way to correct the situation.

My actual biggest question is..why mess with the grief of two pass recce if 25% of the teams miss an obvious, arrowed, route book instructed corner?

Rally is and always will be a sport of new situations. We can only hope to learn and modify for future happenings of past events.

OBTW, my first report was that two cars had made contact on transit. It was later reported as a head on while on stage.

I'm ok with a tracking system btw, or some form of car to car to command contact. Just has to be reliable and affordable.

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heymagic
My actual biggest question is..why mess with the grief of two pass recce if 25% of the teams miss an obvious, arrowed, route book instructed corner?

yes please.

---

-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
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Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA

Respectively Gene, this has nothing to do with Recce. If the event was a Jemba noted course, the same thing would have happened. The drivers just did not listen to instructions and or did not trust the note and drove on their eyes. Tulip route may have helped as the co-driver has little to do other than wait for the next tulip. Boring as hell IMHO. Plus its allot slower, thus easier to see an arrow in a bush 10' before a corner.

I would agree it was a recce issue if 13 teams got lost on recce, noted the wrong road and had a drive through the forest. Not the case.

can someone explain to me how recce is so much more work for the organizers other than having a few O-Controls out? Officials have to setup the course anyway, that's when we do Recce.

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Intercom and electronics dude. www.zerodegreec.ca



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2013 11:40AM by zerodegreec.

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zerodegreec
I would agree it was a recce issue if 13 teams got lost on recce, noted the wrong road and had a drive through the forest. Not the case.

No, they got lost somewhere else on recce

I need to go out there and see what mistake you make doing recce on Nahwatzel South that puts you back at the start of the stage.

Quote

can someone explain to me how recce is so much more work for the organizers other than having a few O-Controls out? Officials have to setup the course anyway, that's when we do Recce.

One issue is the large chunk of time that it takes that the other pre-rally activities have to work around.

Another issue is unidentified sensitive neighbors, who aren't around during the weekend when the rally is run, but are around on a weekday when recce is run. Those people can raise unexpected complaints later and cost us stage roads.

Recce workers to man O Controls was a problem this year. More than half of the workers assigned to recce were no-shows. I heard that competitors started recce of particular stages early because there was no marshal there to make sure that they didn't start early.

Speaking of starting recce a little early, it is usually not a problem. However, we (including rally officials) were not allowed on the Cougar road until after 3:30p, so it would have been a problem with the landowner if someone started recce on that stage early.

BTW, aside from the people who started recce a little early, talking to the people who observed recce, the teams were well-behaved this year. Thanks!

alan



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2013 02:17PM by tipo158.

Funny thing is we got massively lost on Kennedy Creek. None of the others during recce.

I applaud you Alan and Gene for doing all this. I kinow it takes a lot of time. And taking all of our bitching in stride.

I did get somewhat motivated and hooked the front to a big pine. Yanked it out a ways. Then parked the trailer again. End of motivation.

Anyone know any good frame shops in the area?

Tingwu Song is Chinese and lives in Denver apparently.
Martin Brady is Irish and lives in eastern US.
Not sure where the Canadian drivers got brought up...

Funny, that's like the fourth or fifth Denver based rally person that I've never heard of or met...

---

Grant Hughes

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Racinkid13
Funny thing is we got massively lost on Kennedy Creek. None of the others during recce.

I applaud you Alan and Gene for doing all this. I kinow it takes a lot of time. And taking all of our bitching in stride.

I did get somewhat motivated and hooked the front to a big pine. Yanked it out a ways. Then parked the trailer again. End of motivation.

Anyone know any good frame shops in the area?

Yes I do, but ain't going play one way conversations.

You are going to have to do some preliminary stuff yourself..
Like expose the area that is certainly damaged.
Then post piccies of damage.
THEN you plan

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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NoCoast
Tingwu Song is Chinese and lives in Denver apparently.
Martin Brady is Irish and lives in eastern US.

And don't blame Martin for what happened. He wasn't happy with what his driver did.

alan

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tipo158

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NoCoast
Tingwu Song is Chinese and lives in Denver apparently.
Martin Brady is Irish and lives in eastern US.

And don't blame Martin for what happened. He wasn't happy with what his driver did.

alan

Dunno, seems to me by staying in the car he supported the driver's decision.

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12xalt

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tipo158

Quote
NoCoast
Tingwu Song is Chinese and lives in Denver apparently.
Martin Brady is Irish and lives in eastern US.

And don't blame Martin for what happened. He wasn't happy with what his driver did.

alan

Dunno, seems to me by staying in the car he supported the driver's decision.

Wha's a poor bstid 'spossed to do? Hit the harness and shout Geronimo!!!!! and bale out?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
12xalt

Quote
tipo158

Quote
NoCoast
Tingwu Song is Chinese and lives in Denver apparently.
Martin Brady is Irish and lives in eastern US.

And don't blame Martin for what happened. He wasn't happy with what his driver did.

alan

Dunno, seems to me by staying in the car he supported the driver's decision.

Wha's a poor bstid 'spossed to do? Hit the harness and shout Geronimo!!!!! and bale out?

At finish or start or atc with only 3 wheels, methinks it wouldn't have needed to be so dramatic as that, or as painful.

However, for the sake of entertaining the volunteers, sure, he could have added the theatrics.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2013 02:22PM by 12xalt.