CARS Class Rule Change Proposal

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heymagic
Funny how a well driven, nose heavy, poorly geared POS can dominate two events in a row with no more power than a well built 4cyl G2 car.

Which car is this?

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Self-righteous douche canoe

I think this is a step in the right direction.. perfect? Probably not, but what is? Basically, come Jan 1st 2014, we'll be able to run our car the same way we've run it for the last 6 or 7 years, and be classed as Open 2WD. So all we have to do now is limp through the rets of this year with the shitty restrictor... the best thing they could have done was make these changes effective immediately!

-Martin
Nissan 240SX Open2wd (w/restrictor), G5 without.

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hoche

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heymagic
Funny how a well driven, nose heavy, poorly geared POS can dominate two events in a row with no more power than a well built 4cyl G2 car.

Which car is this?

Deriks BMW.

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john vanlandingham
...presumably you should be interested in seeing happy membership...

Which is exactly what we're seeing with this proposal.
I was at an event this weekend on the other side of the country and heard nothing but good things said about the proposal.

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john vanlandingham
...so it seems logical that you would have forwards the suggestions you come across---rather than sitting on your growing bottom and ask me if I had.....it doesn't matter who does, it does matter if one is normally in contact or real fucking busy with 30 project while now minding the girls all day cause school is out...

Of course I casually shared some of the criticisms, but I really do have better things to do than to make sure your voice is heard by the committee. We're really talking about maybe 5 minutes work for you - if you're a hunt and peck typist.

As it is I'm spending way too much time on things rally.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

http://www.zeroto60times.com/BMW-Bimmer-0-60-mph-Times.html

Most cars are listed here, stock trims. Pretty interesting seeing how close some of the times are. My wifes Trailblazer is quicker than a stock M3. It is all relative to the guy behind the wheel. A fast guy in a slow car will usually beat a slow guy in a fast car on rally conditions. If we're playing Canada's got talent with restricted rally cars, who cars? No money to be won, no lasting fame and fortune to be had. The only way to equalize talent is...trick question , you can't equalize talent, only conditions. Always remember ...men are not nor were ever created equal (just mostly in the same fashion).

Create a new class in bone stock Chevy Sonics for the talent or budget challenged. Leave the 2WD cars alone for the people who actually have fun racing.

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hoche

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heymagic
Funny how a well driven, nose heavy, poorly geared POS can dominate two events in a row with no more power than a well built 4cyl G2 car.

Which car is this?

Gene and The Old and Worn Out Dave Clark are both trolling like mad on the fact I said---with clear and emphasized qualifying reservations---- something to the effect that "with a looooooooooooooong heavy inline 6 the tendency to plow or push or understear will be more pronounced that with a shorter inline 4 weighing 150lbs less, and so sure it will work IF you do everything right and drive with some vigor"

And of course most guys aren't Karl Jardevall, or Derek or Dave Hintz good, which means ---looking at how modestly many beginners drive, that they will be TENDING to push more....

So those 2 have been baiting and making silly comments, but we know they're silly comments...

Did see an interesting event illustrating this very well from just a week or so ago in Norway:
Sorland Rally Sprint
http://sorlandssprinten.no/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/startliste_2013.pdf

Look at the results:
http://sorlandssprinten.no/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/resultater_ss_tider_2013.pdf

Lotta 4 cylinder BMWs up top of the list, lotta 4 cylinder Volvos, too
First 6 cylinder in around 20th. Coincidence?

Who can say?
Main thing is Derik and Dave H bought more expensive cars with big nice output motors, NOT the US base slug things that won't rev past 4200...
They're doing good.
A thousand roads lead to Rome.

But I betcha the guys in RWD cars are having more fun getting there, and for less money they can upgrade stuff.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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heymagic

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hoche

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heymagic
Funny how a well driven, nose heavy, poorly geared POS can dominate two events in a row with no more power than a well built 4cyl G2 car.

Which car is this?

Deriks BMW.

It's not nose heavy, nor is it poorly geared, and his HP is rated stock at 240, which is right about the limit of what you can get out of a N/A 4cyl without going to expensivinium parts.

It is well-driven though. So, you're 25% right.

---

Self-righteous douche canoe

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Morison

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john vanlandingham
...presumably you should be interested in seeing happy membership...

Which is exactly what we're seeing with this proposal.
I was at an event this weekend on the other side of the country and heard nothing but good things said about the proposal.

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john vanlandingham
...so it seems logical that you would have forwards the suggestions you come across---rather than sitting on your growing bottom and ask me if I had.....it doesn't matter who does, it does matter if one is normally in contact or real fucking busy with 30 project while now minding the girls all day cause school is out...

Of course I casually shared some of the criticisms, but I really do have better things to do than to make sure your voice is heard by the committee. We're really talking about maybe 5 minutes work for you - if you're a hunt and peck typist.

As it is I'm spending way too much time on things rally.

That's the reason I dislaike "talking" with you.
You are always, ALWAYS, intentionally vague--or so used to speaking/writing so generally that you don't even realise you're being vague. and the purposeful slantings like saying "criticisms" with the obviously negative connotations,---kniowing how defensive most people are---rather than saying "helpful comments".



You could have written "I mentioned that to them that you guys left out this or that ..." and specifyed, but you didn't and you don't.. Always the unstated assumption that we're supposed to trust you were being fair and unbiased..

But Morison, anybody who has been around any kind of competitive activities for a while knows that "Promotions" guys are not trustworthy...they're generally---nearly exclusively, slimy lying whores...who will lie straight to anybody and everybody's face...

Sorry.

Try being more open, and detailed...

You don't want to spend the time being more open and detailed, then don't come and allude to shit...hint at stuff, and say "we can't say right now but trust us , we're working on...."


Since you're in constant communications with the right people, you can easily hit "copy" and "paste" in about 5 seconds on top of the other stuff you're doing...

But you'd rather fold your arms and poke out your lower lip and lecture "You could do this in less than 5 minutes"

The question remains "Why didn't you take 5 seconds?"

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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hoche

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heymagic

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hoche

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heymagic
Funny how a well driven, nose heavy, poorly geared POS can dominate two events in a row with no more power than a well built 4cyl G2 car.

Which car is this?

Deriks BMW.

It's not nose heavy, nor is it poorly geared, and his HP is rated stock at 240, which is right about the limit of what you can get out of a N/A 4cyl without going to expensivinium parts.

It is well-driven though. So, you're 25% right.

See JVs post above about the trolling....

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heymagic
See JVs post above about the trolling....

Doh!

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Self-righteous douche canoe

Apparently the altitude has gotten to my brain.

---

Self-righteous douche canoe

Here is a fun summary as I see it.

It sounds like these efforts are being made to do away with the need for group 5 and group 2 by limiting group 5, taking away its perceived advantage. This way it can just be 2WD. Fewer classes.

The group 5 guys have understandable concerns about minimum weights and restrictors and would rather see the two classes merged to 2WD with the current rules intact.

The group 2 guys have understandable concerns about competing against more powerful cars and perceived advantage that brings.

Then there's the group that doesn't even want to consolidate the two classes and would prefer to just leave things alone. With the trend seeming to be more and more group 5 cars, I'm starting to think that may not the worst way to go...

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john vanlandingham
That's the reason I dislaike "talking" with you.
You are always, ALWAYS, intentionally vague--or so used to speaking/writing so generally that you don't even realise you're being vague. and the purposeful slantings like saying "criticisms" with the obviously negative connotations,---kniowing how defensive most people are---rather than saying "helpful comments".

For the life of me I don't know what you think I was being vague about.

It is far too early to be reporting comprehensive feedback and I'm not the one collecting said feedback so what more can I say other than 'I've talked to a few people and they seem generally happy with the proposal.'

What I dislike about 'talking' with you is your tendency to attack the person instead of the ideas. (particularly when you know you're losing ground on the ideas)

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john vanlandingham
You could have written "I mentioned that to them that you guys left out this or that ..." and specifyed, but you didn't and you don't.. Always the unstated assumption that we're supposed to trust you were being fair and unbiased.

You want me to hold your hand in this conversation?

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john vanlandingham
But Morison, anybody who has been around any kind of competitive activities for a while knows that "Promotions" guys are not trustworthy...they're generally---nearly exclusively, slimy lying whores...who will lie straight to anybody and everybody's face...

I've heard the same said about back-yard mechanics/fabricators.
As much as you try and tar me with that brush only an idiot takes generalizations at face value.

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john vanlandingham
Sorry.

I doubt that very much.

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john vanlandingham
Since you're in constant communications with the right people, you can easily hit "copy" and "paste" in about 5 seconds on top of the other stuff you're doing...

Why should I... seriously.
The contact information is there, it would take you no longer than it would me to copy, paste, send and the reality is that one of the first tests of the value of an opinion is if the person cared enough to actually send it in. In this case, apparently you couldn't be bothered so why should I.
I've been gone Thursday through Monday to attend Rallye Baie des Chaleurs in a volunteer role.

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john vanlandingham
But you'd rather fold your arms and poke out your lower lip and lecture "You could do this in less than 5 minutes"

Nah, not pouting about this at all. Simply suggesting that if you don't care enough about your opinion to send it in, why should anyone else.

You might think that everyone is hanging on your every idea and waiting for your approval of the 'next new idea.' They aren't. (not mine either, mind you)

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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Slowwpoke
Here is a fun summary as I see it.

Not a bad summary.
The only thing I don't know I believe in is 'the trend seeming to be more and more group 5 cars.'
There's a list of 21 cars, or someting like that, that we know is padded with stillborn projects and - of course - there isn't a similar list for other cars under planning or construction out there. Of course I'm talking about north of the border.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

The trend of thousands of cars in the good old USA is to have a set of car rules that bring all makes and models together as one. To do this and not factor in driver skill is to have cars with equal HP to weight ratios. Wheel base ,track width and down force rules. They arnt asking for that there trying to say that the HP to weight ratio is off from group 2 to group 5 and they are correct.

You say it will kill the new builds. I dont agree at all. Actually structure has proven in every other form of racing, business and sports to be the best way to go. Having huge car prep rules yet no structure for competativeness I feel is the biggest problem with rally. CARS is trying to correct this. No other series is. They just come on here and say no change no change. Yet Change is needed.

My car is in open class with a stock ecu stock trans and stock engine no diffs nothing. For me to enter as SP car it will cost me $600 more in entry fee's. Whats that about. So open class it is.

Rally rules for there cages are second to none. There procedures and general flow of a rally is also awesome. There car prep rules and classing for teared car value is a flat out joke! You want cars go to a national proven short track oval type of rule set and watch the cars come.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
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