I'm in the opposite location. NEFR is just around 4 hours away from me. Factor towing in, and NEFR was a lot cheaper for me. Would have liked to do both, but then NEFR moved.

Tim.

My request is that if one is going to cite the past, do so less vaguely. And providing a framework of industry norms against which to compare would also make it much more useful.

Because the list of rallies that had some problem, some time in the past... is a list of all rallies.

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Quote
Anders Green
My request is that if one is going to cite the past, do so less vaguely. And providing a framework of industry norms against which to compare would also make it much more useful.

Because the list of rallies that had some problem, some time in the past... is a list of all rallies.

Anders

In the same manner, you should have your loyal NASA fans stop making up facts to bash RA events.

Example in this thread:

Quote
spalind
RWV the same weekend...33% more stage miles...???% less expensive??

It's actually 39% more stage miles but 31% more expensive.

RWV Early Entry Fee: $1050
RWV Regular Entry Fee: $1200
RWV Late Entry Fee: $1400


NEFR Early Entry Fee: $800
NEFR Regular Entry Fee: $1100
NEFR Late Entry Fee: $1600

Supps are a bit missleading on NEFR it says "approximately 40/80" for the friday/saturday regionals but then when you add up all the stage miles listed for fuel calculations you get 156 miles. I see more mentions of 120 total miles though than a 156 so it's likely 120. But if 156 miles is the case then NEFR even beats RWV by $/mile and even with 120 compared to 167. NEFR/RWV early entry was at $6.66/$6.28 per mile.

Also looks like RA bumped up their insurance coverage:
Rally America® Event $1,000,000 General Liability coverage plus
$4,000,000 excess liability coverage & $50,000 participant accident insurance

Looks to me like NEFR is the better deal and maybe as $/mile and overall cost up until late entry fee, and at that point, if you run your events by late entry fee prices you shouldn't care how much an event costs to you.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2013 11:39AM by BillyElliot.

Hate to do this, but from the RWV Supp Regs...

Description of Liability Insurance Coverage
The Entry Fee includes the insurance premium to insure the competitor and other parties as necessary against all third party bodily injury and property damage for the amount of $5,000,000 per occurrence.

Description of Accident Medical Coverage
All competitors, service crews and all event participants (staff, marshals, volunteers, etc.) have secondary medical coverage of $1,000,000.

I'm just happy to see both events get a decent turnout despite the unfortunate collision of dates.

---

Simon Wright
Owner/Driver USUK Racing - Home of the USUK Racing LED Light Bars!

North America Rally Map



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2013 12:34PM by simoniac.

Quote
BillyElliot
In the same manner, you should have your loyal NASA fans stop making up facts to bash RA events.

Ha! I wish I had so much control over people. I'd make them all help recruit volunteers. Since that's what I try to get them to do anyway, and mostly they don't, I'm sure my attempt to implement your request would leave you underwhelmed.

Quote
BillyElliot
Supps are a bit missleading on NEFR it says "approximately 40/80" for the friday/saturday regionals but then when you add up all the stage miles listed for fuel calculations you get 156 miles.

Yeah, I have no idea what's going on there. I do like, though, that in their supp regs they've directly copied my formatting for the overall schedule of the event. It's a definite improvement so cheers to that!

Quote
BillyElliot
Also looks like RA bumped up their insurance coverage:
Rally America® Event $1,000,000 General Liability coverage plus
$4,000,000 excess liability coverage & $50,000 participant accident insurance

This is kind of what I was actually talking about when I said " if one is going to cite the past, do so less vaguely". They did bump it up? From what amount? And when was it lower? These are genuine questions I'm asking, because while I haven't seen the insurance certificate for NEFR, these numbers sound like what they were in January:
http://www.nasarallysport.com/main/insurance-comparison

Quote
BillyElliot
(NEFR Early Entry Fee: $800)
Looks to me like NEFR is the better deal and maybe as $/mile and overall cost up until late entry fee,

That number ($800) it is not representative of what many people are paying. 28 of 58 entries entered national. So, for 48% of the racers at NEFR, the $800 price is completely irrelevant, it was $1500 or more. Simple math tells us the average entry fee "experience" at NEFR (if all pay early) will be around $1150, whatever that means. "The entry fee for NEFR 2013 is $800" is even less accurate than saying "All the cars at NEFR 2013 are AWD!" Sure, people choose to enter regional or national... they also choose to run 2WD or AWD.

Quote

if you run your events by late entry fee prices you shouldn't care how much an event costs to you.

True to that.

Anyway... I owe you a beer. Be sure to collect next time we meet up!

Cheers!
Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Anders I have to say $800 is the cost of NEFR. If I decided to run that event vs. rallyWV that's the dollar amount that I would have paid.


National well thats a whole different ballgame, well really its the same ballgame, but with an extra gatorade bath. You get the point... the extra $1500 is for the extra gatorade bath not the event.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2013 03:17PM by czwalga.

Quote
czwalga
Anders I have to say $800 is the cost of NEFR. If I decided to run that event vs. rallyWV that's the dollar amount that I would have paid.

It's a cost, and it might be your cost, but it's not the cost. If half the people are paying something else, it's hard to say it's the cost. We're all smart folks here, able to understand at least some subtly and complication. If we weren't, we'd be road racing, right?

"I bought a 2013 Ford Mustang and financed it." "Oh, what did it cost you?"
"Then I got insurance for it." "Oh, what did it cost you?"
"I got some used rims from a buddy who owed me a favor." "Oh, what did it cost you?"

With anything cars, there's often not a "the price".

If only like, 4 people out of 60 entered national, I think that $800 would be a lot more of a "THE price" scenario, since it was near universal. But half?

In a side conversation, consider this: THE most valuable thing (and here I mean value as in actually being worth money) that an event gets out of being on a "national calendar" is the ability to charge half the racers double for the same product. Not press releases, not press attention, not web site hits, not spectators. For NEFR, it looks like it's worth about (1500-800) *28 = $19,600. That is a VERY real value.

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2013 03:39PM by Anders Green.

Anders, I think somebody should say "It's $800 for the 2 Club rallies (called "Whateva, doo Club rally" and "Like whatever Rally"--or whatever) but $xxxx for noral entry for the "National Champignonskit" rally called "Maine Forrest National"

Thank that would help clarify?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Anyway... I'm more excited about some other tech I'm building. It's productive and useful.

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

If we're on a "should say" then say "I looked at both, and one was closer and my friends were already going" since that seems to be closer to the truth, in my estimation.

If rally drivers were "rational beings" (in the economic philosophy sense) their behavior patterns would be drastically different. But they (and pretty much everyone else too) are not.

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Quote
Anders Green

Quote
czwalga
Anders I have to say $800 is the cost of NEFR. If I decided to run that event vs. rallyWV that's the dollar amount that I would have paid.

It's a cost, and it might be your cost, but it's not the cost. If half the people are paying something else, it's hard to say it's the cost. We're all smart folks here, able to understand at least some subtly and complication. If we weren't, we'd be road racing, right?

"I bought a 2013 Ford Mustang and financed it." "Oh, what did it cost you?"
"Then I got insurance for it." "Oh, what did it cost you?"
"I got some used rims from a buddy who owed me a favor." "Oh, what did it cost you?"

With anything cars, there's often not a "the price".

If only like, 4 people out of 60 entered national, I think that $800 would be a lot more of a "THE price" scenario, since it was near universal. But half?

In a side conversation, consider this: THE most valuable thing (and here I mean value as in actually being worth money) that an event gets out of being on a "national calendar" is the ability to charge half the racers double for the same product. Not press releases, not press attention, not web site hits, not spectators. For NEFR, it looks like it's worth about (1500-800) *28 = $19,600. That is a VERY real value.

Anders

I suppose, but to the people who just want to go race fast in the woods, the price is $800. More importantly my cost is $800 haha.


Anyways, you're not riding your bike this year? I was hoping we could go cut some fence posts down before the rally starts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2013 07:12PM by czwalga.

Quote
Anders Green
Anyway... I'm more excited about some other tech I'm building. It's productive and useful.

Will that include results in the normal, world wide accepted 2 columns format???

Oh to be able to follow events easily---then go back for the minutia....

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Will it save rally!?

Tim.

IN all fairness, it is hard to compare the RA national/regional pricing scheme to a NRS price. Yes the regional guys get a deal but at the expense of the national guys higher fees, considerably higher. Yes $800 is $800. All NRS events get the same pricing from the home office, no deal making, no robbing Peter to pay Paul. Who knows what will happen if and when RA/USAC insurance sees a big hit or two? I admire the NEFR organizers for putting on an event and making tough decisions for this year. I will proclaim loud and long the NRS program is the "EASY" button for organizing and yes I've visited both sides of the path. Hopefully both events are declared successful when the dust settles ..groan..

Quote
Anders Green

Quote

if you run your events by late entry fee prices you shouldn't care how much an event costs to you.

True to that.

Anyway... I owe you a beer. Be sure to collect next time we meet up!

Cheers!
Anders

Replace the beer with an energy drink of some sort and I'm OK with that. But I won't see you anyway until BRS most likely, which is fine because I love the chicken there! Mary will be co-driving for Erika @ RWV but I'll be co-driving for Greenhouse @ NEFR so it's going to be the first even where we are both competing but not at the same event. The horror!