Ok, I've just put my name and hometown back in my profile. The FSM decrees we have this information so that what ensues is polite, informed discussion and that the readers know who is saying what.

Sure, it helps, but really - the basic newb doesn't have a clue who 'Adam Vokes' is any more than they wouldn't know who Mr. Magic is.

I'm thinking that a much more reasonable requirement would be for people to include in their signature a list of their experience at stage rallies. (I could have my arm twisted to include navigational rallies, but I'd think it would have to be clearly indicated as TSD, not stage)

It'd be hono(u)r system, obviously, and I don't think anyone will run to Rally Racing News to spot-check the lists. Listing only 'current' experience (last 10 years) might change the data somewhat, but probably not significantly. (and I certainly wouldn't want to suggest that 10 year old experience is diminished in any way.)

So, what say the others... I'll do some figurin' later tonight and update my signature as a first-move gesture of good faith. In the end, I think this will shed a LOT more light on who is saying what and the validity of the viewpoints.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

what kinda format? names of each rally or just total number of rallies as driver or codriver?

like

"0 driver, 3 co-driver"

---

First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

Yah, something like that...

Stacked would probably be better...

Stage Rally
1 - driver, blind
1 - driver, jemba/org provided
5 - driver, pace notes
6 - co-driver, blind
35 - codriver, pace notes
7 - course car (00 or 0)
8 - clerk of the course

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

How about cars built--how they did..Motors built--what Championships they won. suspension built, gearboxes supplied, cages built?

Takes an awful lot more thing to make a rally go than just driving, co-driving or being a Oafish-al.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
How about cars built--how they did..Motors built--what Championships they won. suspension built, gearboxes supplied, cages built?
Takes an awful lot more thing to make a rally go than just driving, co-driving or being a Oafish-al.

Sounds like fair game.
It all speaks to the experience being drawn on for the opinions.

I would say, however, that championship or class wins or 'how they did' are fairly irrelevant and shouldn't be listed. (For either competitors or builders) After all, they are often more about who else was there - or not there. Similarly, tangential experience in other activities shouldnt be listed either

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2013 12:13AM by Morison.

Quote
Morison

Quote
john vanlandingham
How about cars built--how they did..Motors built--what Championships they won. suspension built, gearboxes supplied, cages built?
Takes an awful lot more thing to make a rally go than just driving, co-driving or being a Oafish-al.

Sounds like fair game.
It all speaks to the experience being drawn on for the opinions.

I would say, however, that championship or class wins or 'how they did' are fairly irrelevant and shouldn't be listed. (For either competitors or builders) After all, they are often more about who else was there - or not there. Similarly, tangential experience in other activities shouldnt be listed either

How they did can or could be relevant---a class win and 4th OA does depend on who's there---but it does show something more than a bottom half of the field by 25 minutes in an event with 11 cars.

Tangential? Just how do you mean tangential? And who decides.... you?
Pffft!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Oh good grief. Just trying to figure that out makes my brain hurt. I think I've done something like 45 rallies on one side of the car or another (including a few where I wasn't the codriver-of-record), and another 45 in some sort of official capacity. Organizer, 000, 00, 0, fast sweep, heavy sweep, scoring, scrutineering, net control, control captain, CRO - often several jobs at the same event. You want all of those listed too? What about teaching at rallyschools? Other track time?

---

Self-righteous douche canoe

Quote
hoche
Oh good grief. Just trying to figure that out makes my brain hurt. I think I've done something like 45 rallies on one side of the car or another (including a few where I wasn't the codriver-of-record), and another 45 in some sort of official capacity. Organizer, 000, 00, 0, fast sweep, heavy sweep, scoring, scrutineering, net control, control captain, CRO - often several jobs at the same event. You want all of those listed too? What about teaching at rallyschools? Other track time?

What about individual instruction time? should we break it down into driving instruction? co-driving instruction, engine building instruction, transmission theory instruction, transmission assembly instruction?
What about teach generalised logic and prioritizing as it applies to learning new skills, and how that applies to rally?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Instead of adding this to the sig at the bottom or on the side. What about adding an info section under the control panel. Turbotards does that and it can be helpful.
So let's say that Jimmy GoFast (tm) want's to know if Roundy-Round Ron has good info on rally, he could click his name and see that Ron only does roundy-round racing. So, Jimmy takes info with grain of salt or chooses to follow it completely.

Less cluttered that way, simple.

Quote
john vanlandingham
How they did can or could be relevant---a class win and 4th OA does depend on who's there---but it does show something more than a bottom half of the field by 25 minutes in an event with 11 cars.

Except that the pace for a class win and 4th OA at one event could very easily be bottom half of the field by 25 minutes in another event.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Tangential? Just how do you mean tangential? And who decides.... you? Pffft!

Fuck no, I don't want to be deciding anything. As I said in the first post, this is meant to be on the honour system.

Tangential is pretty straightforward, I'd have thought. If is isn't experience at a rally (*or a build of a rally car) but you can still apply the lessons learned to rally, I'd call that tangential. (geometrically speaking, think of Rally as an arc. A tangent would share a straight line that shares a single point with that arc.)

But in these terms, if some one wanted to include experience or knowledge that wasn't directly stage rally related I suppose it would be OK, but I'd think we'd all want to see that clearly qualified.

As examples I could easily list the following:
2 - Participant in World Championship event
1 - 2nd place in World Championship
1 - Organizer and Competition Director World Championship

But none of those are rally events. That doesn't mean there aren't lessons I bring from those events to rally events both on the competition side and organizing side. The only honest way to include those in the list would be to label them as Radio Control Glider Competition Experience. But, I don't see why I would list them as if I wanted to lean on those experiences in a discussion I'd be clear about the context of the information when I did.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
hoche
Oh good grief. Just trying to figure that out makes my brain hurt.

Yup, me too, and I doubt I'd actually get my list of events right without missing something. (I hadn't thought of instructing)

My only point on this was that a list like that (no matter where) would go a long way to helping people weigh opinions being expressed and possibly stop Adam from making outlandish statements like he has more experience than anyone else here.

I wasn't thinking CV type listings, but more of a generalized, non-exhaustive list.

Maybe just the folowing:
Driver
Co-Driver
Crew
Engines
Cars built
Official (Clerk, course cars, sweep, control captain)
Volunteer (Rank and File position)

Presumably instructing comes because of the experience listed above.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
Morison

Quote
hoche
Oh good grief. Just trying to figure that out makes my brain hurt.

Yup, me too, and I doubt I'd actually get my list of events right without missing something. (I hadn't thought of instructing)

My only point on this was that a list like that (no matter where) would go a long way to helping people weigh opinions being expressed and possibly stop Adam from making outlandish statements like he has more experience than anyone else here.

What makes you think we need any more than the guys own statements to conclude he's just some punk spoiled kid who is so out of touch he hasn't even a clue he's out of touch.. It is self evident from the way he presents himself...

And why waste time when the extreme few bigger idiots have already--with their fixed mind-set way of regarding the world---they've already figured out everything?
And dismissed repeatedly any experience that pre-dates their insolvent, however small-time and provincial it may be?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Enough with the insults John, it really is pointless.

I just thought I'd float an idea about people self declaring their relevant rally experience somewhere in their profiles so we get to know a bit more about people we're chatting with and so newbies, and oldbies, but maybe not boobies, can figure out what sort of weight they should put on anyone's boldly stated opinion.

Example.
Who would you give more weight to when looking for co-driving advice?

A guy that has built 100 engines, driven 15 rallies and co-driven 2 rallies.
or
A guy that has built one car, driven 7 rallies and co-driven 40 rallies.

Now what about engine building advice?

The point behind it all is names are just names and really don't mean a lot, particularly to people fresh to the forum.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

This is quickly going to become a novel in a signature when really, there is no need for any of this.

Besides, people would have to update it after each event.


I pose this question. Who cares, and why? the noobs should be smart enough to look at the post's author and compare it to others by them as they're browsing and come to their own conclusion if they agree with them or not. Or if they ask "where can I get XX" and everyone says in unison, "That guy! YY" then that should be enough. It works everywhere else.

Trolls are trolls and they will always be.

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Quote
Dazed_Driver
Besides, people would have to update it after each event.

Are you saying it is too much for you to update your signature once every ... um ... oh, yah. Never mind.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.