Alternatively, I've met several people (most often at conferences) who have yet to figure out that the ad hominem is an invalid form of argument and a clear sign to most reasonable people that you have no real reply.

In any event, while I'll admit to having been taken aback and annoyed early on, especially when his silly questions (e.g., what's a corner weight?) ruined my own threads, it's now a source of amusement.

Quote
JohnLane

Quote
Iowa999
The second pic (linked above) is after they cut the roof and cage to get the occupants out.

As to the corrosion in my car, some people need to stick to being an a-hole and troll, and avoid becoming a stalker.

Ahhhh but per the troll's words you are driving some manner of mega-bucks car and therefore are obviously some rich asshole; and as such deserving of all his vile attacks. He goes to considerable effort at chasing off anyone who doesn't drink his Kool-aid without question.

He does have that 'Being an Asshole online' thing down to a science.

better than than in real life.
Which sociopath in REAL life who just posted about tailgating dangerously some Prius driver in a huge truck..??

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

As to the actual topic: Minimal damage to the car, roof cut to remove occupants, plus crash after Gina combine to suggest to me that they both suffered neck or spinal injuries in the jump. But that's a guess.

Quote
Iowa999
Alternatively, I've met several people (most often at conferences) who have yet to figure out that the ad hominem is an invalid form of argument and a clear sign to most reasonable people that you have no real reply.

In any event, while I'll admit to having been taken aback and annoyed early on, especially when his silly questions (e.g., what's a corner weight?) ruined my own threads, it's now a source of amusement.

Idiot, I asked what YOUR corner weight were, moron.
So now we see you are an intentional liar, too.
Fuck your ad hominem bullshit..
You bullshit you'll get questioned, you answer with more bullshit, you'll be called a bullshitter--Mr "Rally-Racer Ned Flanders"..

You came here asking a pile of confused and pointless bullshit about suspension for your car to drive in a grassy field for a minute...that is bullshit. You were asked to clarify your obviously confusing mumbling with no units, no reference to what system you were droning about..

Are you surprised you were questioned?

This forum is not for some poseur fuck like you to "amuse yourself" on blurting out random crap then pretending to be offended when you get answers to it.

You are on other forums, go enlighten them.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
Iowa999
As to the actual topic: Minimal damage to the car, roof cut to remove occupants, plus crash after Gina combine to suggest to me that they both suffered neck or spinal injuries in the jump. But that's a guess.

agree with your speculation. maybe they hit a solid object on the drivers side that we can see and the lateral force caused neck injuries.

Quote
Iowa999
As to the actual topic: Minimal damage to the car, roof cut to remove occupants, plus crash after Gina combine to suggest to me that they both suffered neck or spinal injuries in the jump. But that's a guess.

Wonder if its related to the HANS use... there are reports of up to 20 rally drivers or co-drivers suffering spinal fractures in conjuction with landings from jumps or major impact from below.

The HANS is designed for impacts into walls, track guys don't do jumps, different stresses..

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
SeanP

Quote
Iowa999
As to the actual topic: Minimal damage to the car, roof cut to remove occupants, plus crash after Gina combine to suggest to me that they both suffered neck or spinal injuries in the jump. But that's a guess.

agree with your speculation. maybe they hit a solid object on the drivers side that we can see and the lateral force caused neck injuries.

More piccies here
http://500px.com/LanceRutherford/sets/wrc_adac_rallye_deutschland_

Only seem to be vines and they don't hurt much to drive into and only odd thing is very usually low in the rear of the car---suspension failure (It is an incredibly crappy car design, these car are FIA Historic legal, and since it WAS supposed be be EXHIBITION driving, maybe no too reinforced? ) maybe?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Seriously sad news there.

While I would not express it in the same terms as JVL, I feel he is correct about tarmac and speed and grip. I have seen enough guys trying to make the transition from road racing to gravel rally, and anymore, the one thing I try to point out to them is that their biggest challenge is embracing the fact that they will face continually unknown, highly variable grip on gravel. That seems to be the core issue that road racers run into in gravel rally: not being constantly attuned to 'feel' for grip and not leaving some margin when it is not known.

I find it interesting the report that the most recent deaths have been on tarmac.

A factor to be considered in this situation is the small size of the cockpit and the fact that there is limited clearance between heads/helmets and the cage elements, especially compared to a regular sedan. I don't anything about if the TR7 was inherently that strong in its structure or not.

Mark B.

Quote
john vanlandingham
[

Nothing wrong with Sellholm's products, except the price....and the distance to get them serviced..

.

You mean California? It's really not that far.

Quote
SeanP

Quote
Iowa999
As to the actual topic: Minimal damage to the car, roof cut to remove occupants, plus crash after Gina combine to suggest to me that they both suffered neck or spinal injuries in the jump. But that's a guess.

agree with your speculation. maybe they hit a solid object on the drivers side that we can see and the lateral force caused neck injuries.

Look at the dash in that picture. You can see the driver's side is smashed way in. They hit something pretty solid.

Quote
john vanlandingham
better than than in real life.
Which sociopath in REAL life who just posted about tailgating dangerously some Prius driver in a huge truck..??

'Sociopath'

Projection...... Again. You're consistent.

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

Quote
john vanlandingham
Idiot, I asked what YOUR corner weight were, moron.

Apologies! You did, indeed, ask for my corner weights. And then you asked if the values I posted were in pounds per inch. It was so funny that I'd repressed it all until I went through the hassle of digging up the thread.

Quote
Doivi Clarkinen
Look at the dash in that picture. You can see the driver's side is smashed way in. They hit something pretty solid.

Ah. I missed that.

And after a bit more thought about the tarmac theme and recent deaths, it is kinda hard to draw hard conclusions of this type about tarmac vs gravel, car sizes, H&N vs no H&N, because of the statistical nature of racing deaths in this day and age. All the deaths tend to occur with a number of conditions being met to cause the death(s): speed too high AND no run off room AND a certain type of H&N that does not protect at all at certain angles of impact AND hitting something hard with no give AND hitting a particular weak point in the cage AND hitting near the center of mass of the car so that there is no forward energy converted into rotation AND so on and so forth.

I can't recall any consistent theme of rally deaths or any type of racing deaths or injuries, since the 80's when the new tub style Indy cars, with the drivers' feet hanging out the front of the tub, resulted in recurring severe lower leg injuries. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else can recall any such consistent themes....

The varying levels of experience of the drivers in rally deaths over many years is evidence of the statical randomness of such events. Higher speed on tarmac will make that particular factor a more sure significant contributor, but by itself, will not necessarily cause more injuires or deaths; it just may make the end probabilites go up a bit in each accident. It would be more useful to count total off's and accidents on a particular rally or surface.

Mark B.

Wow. I was certainly not expecting it to get heated that quickly. I was just curious if my perception was accurate. Sounds like it was.

The causes of it are certainly of great debate.



Still horrible to see any sort of injury to life and limb in our sport, regardless of what continent it was on. The REAL root of my question was a rhetorical question of what are we doing, if anything, in the US that seems to give us a better edge. Granted, I haven't even remotely started to look at the statistics on an accident-per-competitive-entry of the EU series compared to the US ones. There are certainly more events in the EU that would immediately yield a higher accident ratio, all other things being equal.

But, to my casual observation, it STILL seems unfortunately high.

Quote
JohnLane

Quote
john vanlandingham
better than than in real life.
Which sociopath in REAL life who just posted about tailgating dangerously some Prius driver in a huge truck..??

'Sociopath'

Projection...... Again. You're consistent.

Look Lane it wasn't I how was approaching from behind that Prius and who could have changed lanes sensibly, and it wasn't I who bragged about tailgating it and wishing to run it off the road let's see:

Quote

Lane
Prius in the left lane doing double nickels (his speed limit is 70.. Traffic moving at 75).... I roll up behind at 65.... Woke some shit-head the f___ up.... OH SHIT>>>>> THERE IS A HUGE BUMPER IN MY REAR VIEW!!

Now we've heard about you blacking out and losing consciousness which sounds like scary shit wrong with your brain, you didn't notice the Prius? You had to get on his bumper in some big ass truck when you know you're not well?

Seems willful endangerment for nothing considering that you could have just sailed around...
Then again you don't seem to care who you endanger.
Maybe you aren't a sociopath, but you do a damn good imitation of one.

In real life, that is...On-line you're a complete gentleman

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2013 07:46PM by john vanlandingham.