Rally opulence to the max - overnight engine swaps??

Wasn't there something in the rules that said the block had to remain the same, or words to that effect, specifically to stop engines swaps?

Provided the teams that are swapping motors are quitting the full rally to run the remaining day as a single event then no probs, but swapping motors in the middle of an event should definitely be a no-no.

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Nick Taylor.
Knobhead.
Los Angeles, CA.

I believe that you are thinking of rules that say that the engine has to be from the same manufacturer (as the car body), or words to that effect to keep Frod engines in a Ford car and so forth, not that a specific serial number engine block has to stay in the car.

Regards,
Mark B.

While it may seem opulant, we usually have our own personal cars at the rally with subaru turbo things under the hood. So if we were in a situation that we could swap an engine overnight we would do it. I go to rallies to finish at all costs whether I'm crewing or (now a very rare occurance) driving.
It's not rally if you don't suffer a bit.

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Gone fishing

david amor Wrote:
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>
> It's not rally if you don't suffer a bit.

Minga David! You turning into a Lutheran!!???

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

One thing I was thinking on this but never got around to posting was, What do you think is more expensive, a rally engine or a rally gearbox?

What is more expensive on your car? Many people spend way more money on their engine than on their gearbox for some reason. I see it all the time here in Colorado, especially in Subarus running junkyard gearboxes. Or they spend money buying a better but still stock gearboxes (like an STI 6 speed). But if you look at the top guys, even in the US, I'd wager it is the other way around. And if you look at Finnish Group F cars such as Toni's M3, you'll see near stock engines with gearboxes that are probably over 6-10K.

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Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
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> One thing I was thinking on this but never got
> around to posting was, What do you think is more
> expensive, a rally engine or a rally gearbox?
>
> What is more expensive on your car? Many people
> spend way more money on their engine than on their
> gearbox for some reason. I see it all the time
> here in Colorado, especially in Subarus running
> junkyard gearboxes. Or they spend money buying a
> better but still stock gearboxes (like an STI 6
> speed). But if you look at the top guys, even in
> the US, I'd wager it is the other way around. And
> if you look at Finnish Group F cars such as Toni's
> M3, you'll see near stock engines with gearboxes
> that are probably over 6-10K.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO



Yeah that's true but the reality is for the price of a dogbox I could have 17 4.44 5 speeds.

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Gone fishing

For the price of one of your 4.44 5 speeds I could have a dogbox.

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Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
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> One thing I was thinking on this but never got
> around to posting was, What do you think is more
> expensive, a rally engine or a rally gearbox?

Depends on how stupid ya wanna get.
And to a large degree the gearbox you need depends on the camshafts ya chose because the camshafts determine the shape and placement of the powerband.
eg You build a narrow powerband that works only from 5000 to 8000 then you better gear it so it doesn't ever drop below 5000.

>
> What is more expensive on your car? Many people
> spend way more money on their engine than on their
> gearbox for some reason.

Currently. Back when 2wd cars weren't looked at as a passing phase on the way to yet another goddam blue Sub-a-rat, we might spend a little more to build a really solid, and pretty fast motor, but at least here in Sleezattle, an awful lot of guys ended up with proper close ratio gearboxes, and the cost just depended on what I was getting them. Saab gearsets were very cheap, Opel like Sam Bryan and Dave Clark and I think Rick Delamere got cost a bit more


I see it all the time
> here in Colorado, especially in Subarus running
> junkyard gearboxes. Or they spend money buying a
> better but still stock gearboxes (like an STI 6
> speed). But if you look at the top guys, even in
> the US, I'd wager it is the other way around. And
> if you look at Finnish Group F cars such as Toni's
> M3, you'll see near stock engines with gearboxes
> that are probably over 6-10K.

With the current crop of mainly 'pooter educated young guys, since they didn't have to suffer from crappy gearboxes when they were learning everything they know about rally on Colin McRaeII so they don't think they need a nicer box, and truth is with a turbo, the Subaru motor works pretty good with the stock ratio, they all simply explode.
In your case, you will be wasting money to buy a dog gear set as with a nice braod powerband in the turbo 2300, there is no need at all for it except bragging rights.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

NoCoast Wrote:
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> For the price of one of your 4.44 5 speeds I could
> have a dogbox.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO


Great I'll trade you 5 4.44 subaru 5 speeds for a dogbox then

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Gone fishing

john vanlandingham Wrote:
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> In your case, you will be wasting money to buy a
> dog gear set as with a nice braod powerband in the
> turbo 2300, there is no need at all for it except
> bragging rights.

Well, when it comes to US rally doesn't bragging rights mean more than results anyhow. Who cares if you can drive it fast if it doesn't sound and look good and most importantly, if you're not spectacular to watch.
Get the car to sound good on the in car video (high revving, close ratio gearbox, free flowing exhaust, brakes screaming, etc.), and get the car to look spectacular from the outside while it's being driven (use every bit of the road, lots of committment, brakes? etc.), and I'd bet you'll find yourself near the top of your class and hopefully winning money.

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Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In your case, you will be wasting money to
> buy a
> > dog gear set as with a nice braod powerband
> in the
> > turbo 2300, there is no need at all for it
> except
> > bragging rights.
>
> Well, when it comes to US rally doesn't bragging
> rights mean more than results anyhow. Who cares
> if you can drive it fast if it doesn't sound and
> look good and most importantly, if you're not
> spectacular to watch.


Yeah the US Rally scene has always reminded me of the old Billy Chrystal schtick where he'd play the part of a TV talk show host or guest and ramble on and continulally stop and say "I just wanted to say.....you loook maaaahrvelous!"
> Get the car to sound good on the in car video
> (high revving, close ratio gearbox, free flowing
> exhaust, brakes screaming, etc.), and get the car
> to look spectacular from the outside while it's
> being driven (use every bit of the road, lots of
> committment, brakes? etc.), and I'd bet you'll
> find yourself near the top of your class and
> hopefully winning money.


Have I mentioned it, Grant?
you loook maaaahrvelous!

>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I like all the talk about making sure the racing is exciting both inside the car and out. That makes for the most fun in the seat and from the sidelines. None of us would be here if all the rally drivers were safely farting down the road. Nobody is going to be excited to watch that sort of nonsense.

With that said, my goal is to have the Gaylant ready in time to run Prescott next October. (Not looking forward to working two jobs to fund it, but if that's what it takes...) So I know I need to play it somewhat safe while starting out so as to be sure I have a car to enter in more events, but when/where do you draw the line? I can't be timid and lame (the car *will* get stuffed some day), but I can't be foolhardy either (too afraid of said stuffage).

Just wondering.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

DR1665 Wrote:
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> None of us would be here if all the
> rally drivers were safely farting down the road.
> Nobody is going to be excited to watch that sort
> of nonsense.

If I was less lazy, I'd link to that thread that you posted of that video from LSPR.

You have to drive it at a pace that you are comfortable with. But in my opinion, the only way to rally is with a spare shell in the garage (or a friends backyard) and you're first priority once you finish the car should be to cage the second car so that you don't get into the all to frequent midset of having to 'save' the car so that you can pay $3000 for a future weekend to go a few miles an hour faster on closed roads than you would if you were driving the same road in your daily driver because in the back of your mind is always all those little sayings that are ingrained by safety stewards from our rallying infancy. "To finish first, you must first finish", "There those who have rolled and those who will", etc.

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Grant Hughes