So now there is a quasi-open class?

Basicly SP held back the abuility to build a good solid yet affordable competative car.

I don't see how this could be possible. All the cars in SP class are constrained by the same rules. Of course they're competitive with EACH OTHER.

Lets say I want to build the most competative SP car vs NLO. Lets decide what makes the car fast first. Weight,weight ditribution, wheel base, track width and engine. Ok so SP rules say i cant up date and back date. The rules say I have to run engine derived from the same years. So if i want to make the most potential power i need to buy the 2015 wrx. Thats wrecked at auction 16k. Okay so now lets go for weight. Well the 2015 weighs in at 3200lb the GD weighs in at 3050lb. The GD wins that catagory. Cost sti used wrecked say 10k. Ok wheel base 99 vrs 105. Depnding on most rally roads its kind of a wash. But if I were building the ideal rally car i would want 99 over 105. so GD Subie it is. The evo fits in here to at about 15k. These prices are for just the starter car nothing at all rally related to get on stage just the first part of the rally budget the doner car.

Okay now lets do the same for NLO Weight? GC subie at 2800 lbs check. Wheel base 99" check. Now we dont have to do the whole what engine makes more power because we can do any engine so lets go find a donor gc car to start this whole build. Used at auction staright panles not smashed. $500

Any questions i didnt answer how this class is better then SP other then win on sunday sell on monday?

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
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Quote
Reamer
A guy can run OL decide he wants a turbo for what ever reason. He can do so with the same car and be competative. NLO is designed around what the most awd rally demographic want to stay in the sport.
.

This.

Stupor Ploduction was invented soley to give another class to one manufacturers fans who immediately clamored for changes, allowances, mods.
OK nothing saying they can't just run their cars.
SO MANY 2-4 car classes.
It dilutes the competition to meaninglessness.
Especially the "National" Chimpignonskit with 13 car entries..

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I agree John I believe teams will check the NLO box rather then open or SP box. meaning of the 13 cars more will fit in NLO. Not to mention the regioal O, OL guys who may want to enter a national event. If the national regional entry fee stays the same as Snodrift its a lot more feesable for the regional guy to maybe pay the extra $150 to get on the National web results for there local fans.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

It's pretty obvious that yes, 2016 will be a transition year where the VTCar will win outright. However for 2017 I can easily see the current Open class being removed, and the "top class" will be NLO.

Really who is it going to hurt? Just VTCar, Hoonigan Racing, and FY. They are the only guys who have the custom hubs, custom tube frame front ends, sequential gearboxes, etc.

I'm excited for the class, seems to be going back to the 05-07 season where the top cars were basically GrpN cars. Not crazy unobtainable and there was a lot of good close competition. I'm even considering seeing if my sponsors will be willing to pay up the extra $300 to enter NLO for 100AW.

Really does seem like RA has listened, and are trying to get things back in line between regional/national. Not a giant divide like there is now, and why there is only 10-15 "national" guys. I can easily see in a few years the National class being just simply AWD and 2WD given that there is a very small difference between SP and NLO right now. 2WD has already gotten rid of G2/G5 for national. Just have to transition a bit to keep people happy.

I hope they dont get rid of the open class. To me its still the premier class with the fastest best teams. I just like the new class for the potential it has for deeper competition. Maybe make the new class the class with all the publicity but still let the open class have a place to come and play. so maybe not drop open but make it more for the guys who want odd ball things to rally.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

Now if they'd open up the restrictor requirements at a regional level to say 37-38mm... About the size of a ko3/4 on my 1.8t.

I foresee alot of creeping under cars and looking for R180 rear diffs.
The only real cost control going on here is in suspension components and a little bit in regards to aero, which I always say in rally if you're willing to waste the money on aero, go for it. Suspension components I mildly understand but also stifling development and limiting the class to Evo and Subaru still.
Diffs are still open so you've still gotta have a active center with the right diff controller and proper diff maps to be competitive. There's $10k into your GC shell. But, you can't run the R180 diff to match the power output so better start bringing your spare R160 diffs to events. 34mm restrictor is still required so we still have a need for aftermarket ECUs, antilag, and Cosworth blocks. Oh, no water injection, whew, saved a hundred or two there thankfully.

What is so hard about saying, no restrictor, no active differentials, no sequential gearboxes, pump gasoline, petrol only, with max 93 octane rating with no octane additive/boosters?

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Grant Hughes

I know folks around here don't like AutoX - but if you can learn any lesson there at all, it's that no matter what the class rules, people can dump 10s of thousands into them to gain an edge. Even the Stock class there which is quite rigid in the rulebook has this problem.

Doesn't matter what they do with classes, someone with a big bank account can go to VTSC and say "I want the best car in class Y" and it's gonna run rings around any 'affordable' build in the class.

Not sure where it says you cant run r 180 diff in a gc?

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

All racing has a money grab. proper rule set closes the gap money can buy tramendacly. The good thing with Higgins possible new car as of now is weight. There is no way with the current rules VSC can get the new 2015 car down to 2900 lbs. The car is also going to be more front heavy for the same reasons. Yes Higgins will still win! Hopfully with this new rule set other fast teams can at least be with in a couple minutes to make it more competative. Higgins could have 1 flat at an event on the first stage and not be able to gang the time back. even if he won every other stage. Im not saying i want him to have a flat. But if the times are closer the amount every driver pushes will go up. Hopfuly making for better results deeper in the field. We all have been racing ive raced against money my whole entire oval track and rally career. These teams can and do get beat all the time in oval track. Rally with the all the different conditons will be the same way.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

Quote
Reamer
Not sure where it says you cant run r 180 diff in a gc?

Misread, I am incorrect.

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Grant Hughes

the real question is, will it save rally?

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I am not an alien

Koolaid on specialstage just an FYI

Quote
si
I know folks around here don't like AutoX - but if you can learn any lesson there at all, it's that no matter what the class rules, people can dump 10s of thousands into them to gain an edge. Even the Stock class there which is quite rigid in the rulebook has this problem.

Doesn't matter what they do with classes, someone with a big bank account can go to VTSC and say "I want the best car in class Y" and it's gonna run rings around any 'affordable' build in the class.

John,
idiots can spend all they want in any sport.
Smrater-er people know that is foolish when there is no guaranteed payoff...monetarily or via a perceived rise in social status....

Indeed in our little sport, the contempt or lack of interest many privately express about the mega-buck cars is rooted in this sorta "Harumph! They sped hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to beat a buncha garage built barely warmed over cars? Pffffft."

The more difficult the conditions, they more the need for skill, the more the need for personal mental strength, the less after some point, the assurance of success by cubic dollars...

As we have seen, posted right here, if one has a broader perspective than just looking at HERE and pretending that this is the only place rally is done, the more you see that the results of even the alleged "pointiest of the pointiest" in the best car that money can buy (by that I mean to get a better car you can't buy it---they give it to you) was beat on SS times by 2 club level Golves, and 1 club level school-bus length Volvo 940...
So the dumping of truckloads of money MAY buy a result in Merikuh, but knowing what we know about what the speed is when there are OTHERS with skill, it vastly erodes any meaning from the results here.

When money buys results in motorsports, there is something wrong with the format, the rules set, or the participants.....

And add asphalt to any motorsport and the results begin looking like $$ is the key.

Purely an opinion, but one formed over 50 years of watching--and participating to a fairly high level in---- various motorsports all over the world

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
si
I know folks around here don't like AutoX - but if you can learn any lesson there at all, it's that no matter what the class rules, people can dump 10s of thousands into them to gain an edge. Even the Stock class there which is quite rigid in the rulebook has this problem.

Doesn't matter what they do with classes, someone with a big bank account can go to VTSC and say "I want the best car in class Y" and it's gonna run rings around any 'affordable' build in the class.

As JVL pointed out. It's going to happen regardless, however limiting the amount of freedom can do a lot to keep things grounded. The reason the VTCar could run circles around any privateer effort is they had a dedicated engineering staff, reworked the car from front to back pushing the limit of the rules tremendously. Huge track width, custom subframes, custom suspension links, reworked mounting points, the front and rear of the car almost entirely custom/tubular, sequential gearbox, custom differentials, etc etc etc. The most recent Launch Control episode shows a lot of the bare car shell and the underpinnings of the car.

Some of the highlights of the new ruleset include stock subframes, stock mounting points, only 3.5" extra travel length over stock, requiring transmissions to use the OEM casings, zero changes to the fenders (no 4" extra wide trackwidth), stock hubs (can only remove material, not add), no changes to the front and rear frame rails, and can only modify one side of the transmission tunnel for exhaust clearance.

So yes, VTCar is still going to spend a lot to get every extra ounce of performance out of the ruleset, but things such as the impending "one engine per rally", suspension restrictions and transmission restrictions I am sure will bring more competitors back. I know Ramanda has mentioned that if SP was the top class he'd come back to rally. Even FY Racing had to bow out of racing this year because they were just bleeding money to keep up with SRT.

2016 will probably be boring in the sense that yes... Higgins will win everything in Open Class, and will be marketed as "overall winner" at every event, although who knows who will actually enter national open when this NLO is available. Pretty much every other competitive car in North America falls under the NLO rules, as I don't really know of anyone else that is doing custom subframes, custom suspension pickups, etc. Except maybe the Evo that Song drives, and the Mirage?

I heard they were worried about these arriving from NZ and upsetting the Subaru overlords.

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Grant Hughes