BIG NEWS! Rally America annouces Big Sponsorship deal in Group 2

I wholeheartedly agree with JVL. I cannot stand the graphs. A far more interesting story is available when you go stage by stage and can actually see the individual drivers. Like what WRC does, like what RA does. Who cares about your "bounce rates" and whatnot. I can only imagine you only get a couple hundred hits anyways?

I know I stayed for a few more minutes after trying to find results because I couldn't figure out what the heck I was looking at, then trying to wander around to find actual stage-by-stage results.

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Anders Green
The metrics say the "bounce rate" (which is how many people land on the page... and then within seconds leave) was cut in half with the new design. So yes, it does show up better one smart phones, and that's where a lot of the traffic is coming from. That's not "like, my opinion, man", that's before and after data comparing different presentation methods. If the data said that this new way sucked, I'd change it back, or try something else, but it performs about 50% better on all metrics.

So the amount of time someone spends on the page is directly proportional to how much better it is? I'd almost venture to say the exact OPPOSITE is true when it comes to reporting. If I spend less time on the page it's probably because I found exactly what I needed and went back to browsing Facebook. If I have the page up for five minutes it's because I was looking at a pile of spaghetti trying to figure out where the link to the Normal Virtually Everywhere in the Whole World Standard Format (I like the JVL term for that) somewhere else on the page:

http://nasarallysport.com/results/2016-Sandblast-Rally-overall-detail.htm

http://nasarallysport.com/results/2016-Sandblast-Rally-simple.htm

Astronaut Gene Cernan once said, "The evil of good is better." It's an aphorism that frustrates me to no end when I want to bolt shiny shit on my car just 'cause it makes me feel good inside, but Gene, Voltaire, Confucius, et al are right; just get the job done. In this case the right way is the way that is the easiest to understand, not the way that "decreases bounce rate". I came to that page to see who won by how much and what class they were in, where the close fights were. No D3.js (edit: highcharts.js) necessary.

Your new way is totally better, but my brain more easily understands what is worse. That doesn't make either of us wrong, it just makes us different.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2016 10:23AM by ronerickson.

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ronerickson
So the amount of time someone spends on the page is directly proportional to how much better it is? I'd almost venture to say the exact OPPOSITE is true when it comes to reporting.

No one can understand a whole shitload of numbers in under four seconds.

No one can "get a detailed understanding of what's happening" in that amount of time either.

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2016 10:31AM by Anders Green.

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MConte05
I wholeheartedly agree with JVL. I cannot stand the graphs. A far more interesting story is available when you go stage by stage and can actually see the individual drivers. Like what WRC does, like what RA does.

Bahahaha, so, like what people have been complaining about for 10 years? Ok. Has that worked? So well that people routinely go through the considerable effort of scraping the data off and trying to re-present it. There's even a whole web site designed to do that, which is also routinely recommended to people.

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MConte05
Who cares about your "bounce rates" and whatnot.

People that want to increase engagement with fans care about these things. If you've never come across this concept before or dismiss its importance I can only assume you've never built anything for the web. So I can't imagine you caring about it. I do though, because I'm trying to improve things. There are many things in rally that are unmeasurable and can only be opinion... but this isn't one of them.

If you don't care about public engagement or the growth of the sport or the satisfaction of the racers then you absolutely wouldn't try different designs and measure the metrics for their performance. You would just keep what you had and never change it.

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MConte05
I know I stayed for a few more minutes after trying to find results

To find the very first button on the page that says "Stage Scores"? I can't make it any more first than it already is. I expect it will be very easy for you next time.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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Anders Green

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MConte05
I wholeheartedly agree with JVL. I cannot stand the graphs. A far more interesting story is available when you go stage by stage and can actually see the individual drivers. Like what WRC does, like what RA does.

Bahahaha, so, like what people have been complaining about for 10 years? Ok. Has that worked? So well that people routinely go through the considerable effort of scraping the data off and trying to re-present it. There's even a whole web site designed to do that, which is also routinely recommended to people.

Quote
MConte05
Who cares about your "bounce rates" and whatnot.

People that want to increase engagement with fans care about these things. If you've never come across this concept before or dismiss its importance I can only assume you've never built anything for the web. So I can't imagine you caring about it. I do though, because I'm trying to improve things. There are many things in rally that are unmeasurable and can only be opinion... but this isn't one of them.

If you don't care about public engagement or the growth of the sport or the satisfaction of the racers then you absolutely wouldn't try different designs and measure the metrics for their performance. You would just keep what you had and never change it.

Quote
MConte05
I know I stayed for a few more minutes after trying to find results

To find the very first button on the page that says "Stage Scores"? I can't make it any more first than it already is. I expect it will be very easy for you next time.

Anders

People have complained about RA's separation of national and regional for overall results. They've always had individual stage scores for everyone presented for each stage.

http://www.nasarallysport.com/results/2016-Sandblast-Rally-overall-detail.htm

I see stage scores, but pretty much impossible to go stage by stage, and see who was a faster driver on some of them. The general public doesn't care about this.

http://rally-america.com/events/2015/100AW/stages/stage/3

I like looking at this, seeing how far I was from another driver, then jump to the next stage, see if I got quicker or slower. By how much. What I'd love to see is a second per mile speed difference instead of average speed, but that's moot. It's similar to how it's presented in WRC stuff, and anywhere else.

But clearly we disagree, and that's fine.

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MConte05
I wholeheartedly agree with JVL. I cannot stand the graphs. A far more interesting story is available when you go stage by stage and can actually see the individual drivers. Like what WRC does, like what RA does. Who cares about your "bounce rates" and whatnot. I can only imagine you only get a couple hundred hits anyways?

I know I stayed for a few more minutes after trying to find results because I couldn't figure out what the heck I was looking at, then trying to wander around to find actual stage-by-stage results.

Dayum If youäre agreeing I must be onto sumpin..

Wait..I've been pushing Le-gassys since the mid 90s and you are faithful Le-gassist..So we agree on that..

WTF?

Just one note--a slight correction...Like "Dubya Arsey does but NOT like Rally America has always done"---their format is execrable .....That's a polite word for shitty...

More like do the wonder job done by that living SAINT!!! the messiah!, the incomparable Daron Hume and his beloved, wonderful, PERFECT!
RallyAmerica Combiner thing.
http://www.daronhume.com/rally/combine.php5?new_rally=1&rally_id=oregon&rally_year=2014

Andrei Andreivitch dahrlink, not saying one thang or de udder....No, never! Choice!

maybe color classes different but JUST doing things for the "Play-pretty" zombie boys is a doomed thing as soon as something else ditsracts them.. So have all the color charts and Smrat-phone friendly gee-gaws but ALSO on the slight chance that all their brains haven't yet atrophied, expose them to the way things are done virtually everywhere else in the whole world...






Is this who you want to soley cater to?:


If its too much work maybe our Savior Darom could make a NASA version of his thing?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2016 11:41AM by john vanlandingham.

I like it. To be able to see Greenhouse go from 1st to 11th to 2nd....I wouldn't have see that in the other format as easily. The overall stage scores are literally one click away and the very first thing you can click. Granted it would be nice to see the time back from the leader, maybe in a little box to the right of the graph, but you can figure it out on the other page.

I don't think that format takes anything away from anything. If anything it aids to overall results comprehension so why complain about that?

The graph presentation is without question a good way to figure out where to LOOK for the interesting data, but simple position on each stage doesn't give a lot of insight. Graphing actual stage time would show a lot more at a glance. (The 'race closeness' almost does this)

understanding metrics is one thing, but assuming longer time on the page means more engagement isn't quite right. When I first looked at the first graph I spent a fair amount of time trying to figure out if any of the information was relevant. Once you understand the graph, you won't spend much time there at all.

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First Rally attended (2000), First Rally competed in (2001)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Driver (8), Co-Driver (47), Drivers (19)
Clerk (29), Steward (1), Official (17), Volunteer (5)
WRC Spectator (1), WRC Photographer (6), WRC Observer (4)
Rallies attended (120) Countries attended rallies in (11)
Last Updated, May30, 2022

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Not Trolling
The graph presentation is without question a good way to figure out where to LOOK for the interesting data, but simple position on each stage doesn't give a lot of insight. Graphing actual stage time would show a lot more at a glance. (The 'race closeness' almost does this)

understanding metrics is one thing, but assuming longer time on the page means more engagement isn't quite right. When I first looked at the first graph I spent a fair amount of time trying to figure out if any of the information was relevant. Once you understand the graph, you won't spend much time there at all.

Yep. This.. There is so much just bullshit in how even some participants express things that its not even funny.... Rally is different. We have to educate peoplez...

I heard while going round with some misguided 20something here once blabbering about "the fastest car always wins" that's what its all about"

Wrong little boy, no prize in rally for "fastest car".
We give prizes to the car which was quickest the the stages.

They give prizes for "fastest" cars at Bonneville.

And the score is decided on the time on SS not the place on SS.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2016 01:51PM by john vanlandingham.

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john vanlandingham

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Not Trolling
...

Yep. This.

Quoted for posterity...

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First Rally attended (2000), First Rally competed in (2001)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Driver (8), Co-Driver (47), Drivers (19)
Clerk (29), Steward (1), Official (17), Volunteer (5)
WRC Spectator (1), WRC Photographer (6), WRC Observer (4)
Rallies attended (120) Countries attended rallies in (11)
Last Updated, May30, 2022

Supposedly Maxxis is offering TWO tires for a class win in national SCCA rallycross o.0 Two for rallyx, and only one for stage rally? Seems fishy to me.

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dunhamr1
Supposedly Maxxis is offering TWO tires for a class win in national SCCA rallycross o.0 Two for rallyx, and only one for stage rally? Seems fishy to me.

Pretty safe bet for them to make. What do you think the chances are that a class winner will be running 4 new Maxxis tires and not some Hen's teeth, can't buy in the US, rubber so soft its gone in 6 runs, rallycross special?

We offer contingency for Rallycross for 2016. I'll post a regular thread.

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Grant Hughes

Quote
Thomas Kimsey

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dunhamr1
Supposedly Maxxis is offering TWO tires for a class win in national SCCA rallycross o.0 Two for rallyx, and only one for stage rally? Seems fishy to me.

Pretty safe bet for them to make. What do you think the chances are that a class winner will be running 4 new Maxxis tires and not some Hen's teeth, can't buy in the US, rubber so soft its gone in 6 runs, rallycross special?

You can buy them in the US. ;-) And they last a bit longer than six runs.

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Grant Hughes

I ran 14 stages on Maxxis softs with a heavy awd subie with no issues. Would of been 17 if i would of slowed for a water crossing. Fastest rally for me to date. I plan to run these same tires at least partially at STPR . The driving feels different then the Pirreli but the times seem to be just as fast. Pirreli to me seem a little softer feel. Like maybe a little softer side wall on the pirreli maybe? I felt comfortable to push with the Maxxis.

I cant see much for complaining about them being junk unless your used to buying a bunch of K8 pirreli and changing to new ones every 4 stages. To me they seem to be a good choice for cost,speed and durability.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
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