Morality of Rallying

What I see regularly are people spending a lot of money on 'item x' because they 'need it to be competitive' and either end up slower, don't gain significant speed, or suffer from unreliability because they are pushing everything to 'the edge.'

What I see less often are people taking cars and building them far enough off the edge that they are reliable, and then doing what it takes to pedal them to the limit of what the car can do. (Hint, the magic combination is some schooling combined with a LOT of testing, practicing, and competition.)
Where we do see that approach, it is ALWAYS successful.

When it comes to moto, UTV, and SxSs... I don't have a lot of personal interest in competing in those areas, nor do I particularly want to add them to the events I organize. I do get the sense that they water down our sport, and am not shocked at all that they are posting overall competitive times (on some stages) since they are shorter, narrower, and have better power to weight ratio than cars do. I heard that there was a broken jaw in a SxS crash at one of the Quebec events, but don't know that for sure.

When it comes to Moto... we were approached some time ago about including them in CARS events (Rocky was approached specifically.) After some discussion, it was clear that moto riders would only support an entry fee that was about a third, or less, of what we needed from cars, and the numbers would have been questionable.

Maybe I have a particular beef, but I see the proliferation of (large) enclosed trailers / tow rigs as a large part of the 'affordability' problem these days. Not only are the assumptions that you need an AWD turbo car to do well in the sport, but there is also the assumption that you need a big, enclosed, trailer to be 'in the game' at all. (That said, I see the advantage of an enclosed trailer particularly if it is dedicated to the rally car)

Focus on the fundamentals and do them well has almost always been my approach to things.

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First Rally attended (2000), First Rally competed in (2001)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Driver (8), Co-Driver (47), Drivers (19)
Clerk (29), Steward (1), Official (17), Volunteer (5)
WRC Spectator (1), WRC Photographer (6), WRC Observer (4)
Rallies attended (120) Countries attended rallies in (11)
Last Updated, May30, 2022

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Vincent Gagnon
But...but you would still end up in a MIATA FOR FUCK SAKE!

Rallying aside, Miatas are pretty neat little cars, at least the first couple of generations. Unkillable engine, solid gearbox for the power, nice gear ratios, decent rear diff, nice little double A-arm suspension on both ends, well-protected gas tank. The only real problem is if you run them hard and are doing a lot of drafting, they get hot.

I wouldn't use one as a general purpose rally car though. I refer you to several long discussions about them both here and on SpecialStage as to reasons why. They might be doable and fun for smoother events though. You'd have to pick and choose carefully.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

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hoche
As for sequentials, I'm in the "whatever" camp. I kinda toss that in the bucket with turbos, AWD, active diffs, 20" of travel, custom ECUs, and so on. Just a tool.

Of course, you save and run up your credit cards and put all that stuff in your awesome Mitsubaford and then some guy comes along in a nearly bone-stock 2WD RAV4 with a frickin' automatic and embarrasses you because he's been racing since he was 2 and has top-flight mentors and navigator and is generally way better prepared.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

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hoche

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hoche
As for sequentials, I'm in the "whatever" camp. I kinda toss that in the bucket with turbos, AWD, active diffs, 20" of travel, custom ECUs, and so on. Just a tool.

Of course, you save and run up your credit cards and put all that stuff in your awesome Mitsubaford and then some guy comes along in a nearly bone-stock 2WD RAV4 with a frickin' automatic and embarrasses you because he's been racing since he was 2 and has top-flight mentors and navigator and is generally way better prepared.

i read that as "seat time trumps"

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

Seat time and consistency in ride. I have friends that have never driven the same car twice. Constantly changing things and "upgrading"

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Grant Hughes

I am often surprised at people who will show up for a rally with a car they haven't even driven since the last event and sometimes still trying to fix damage the week before.
Even with the bikes, which are pretty reliable out of the box, I always go through bearings and such and do a bunch of prep and then ride it everyday for a while before an event. It just helps. For sandblast, this means riding in Pittsburgh weather in February.
Perry

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Perry

FE570s course bike
KTM 950 ADV
74 Beetle turbo-efi etc..
72 Beetle stage rally project WRX powered
Attended about 15 rallies, usually a volunteer in a course car.

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Perry
I am often surprised at people who will show up for a rally with a car they haven't even driven since the last event and sometimes still trying to fix damage the week before.
Even with the bikes, which are pretty reliable out of the box, I always go through bearings and such and do a bunch of prep and then ride it everyday for a while before an event. It just helps. For sandblast, this means riding in Pittsburgh weather in February.
Perry

Yeah, odd..At this years Oregon Trails 3 cars burst into flames, 2 burn up..I innocently asked "First events since when???And these cars buring down? WHAt in the world have they been doing since whenever?"

Of course a raft of Blubaru Rallycross wannabe wawwywacers have to get all butt hurt and whine for days..and a hilarious near-noob co-driver lecturing me that maybe after I've done an event or two I'll understand how serious they are... Oh, OK, racing from 1967 thru 1997 doesn't count I guess.

I mean it: is it really that hard to get a car to run 130 miles? Years ago we'd go out 2 times a month and rack up 160 to 200 miles in a night with far worse engines, tires, suspension..and then do 4 to 9 events in a year..

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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john vanlandingham
and a hilarious near-noob co-driver lecturing me that maybe after I've done an event or two I'll understand how serious they are... Oh, OK, racing from 1967 thru 1997 doesn't count I guess.

And how good was that chap to take himself so seriously? I hope he didn't know who he was talking to...

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john vanlandingham


Yeah, odd..At this years Oregon Trails 3 cars burst into flames, 2 burn up..I innocently asked "First events since when???And these cars buring down? WHAt in the world have they been doing since whenever?"

Of course a raft of Blubaru Rallycross wannabe wawwywacers have to get all butt hurt and whine for days..and a hilarious near-noob co-driver lecturing me that maybe after I've done an event or two I'll understand how serious they are... Oh, OK, racing from 1967 thru 1997 doesn't count I guess.

I mean it: is it really that hard to get a car to run 130 miles? Years ago we'd go out 2 times a month and rack up 160 to 200 miles in a night with far worse engines, tires, suspension..and then do 4 to 9 events in a year..

My perspective changed after doing course work for quite a few events. As a course car codriver, I'd log us in and out of stages and on the rare occasion that we didn't have to stop we'd outrun about half the field without notes in a stock street car or large SUV or whatever on all season tires. And because the rally cars weren't reliable we were usually a full course car field of daily drivers with no prep. Very rarely did anything go wrong with them. Granted it's mostly experienced folks who take the course work seriously and are careful, but we also had to keep moving at a good pace or the rally train would be delayed.

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Perry

FE570s course bike
KTM 950 ADV
74 Beetle turbo-efi etc..
72 Beetle stage rally project WRX powered
Attended about 15 rallies, usually a volunteer in a course car.