Pre 1990 2wd.

Pretty cool to stop in here after several years and see some familiar names!

In my opinion Josh’s second third and fourth points are the main reasons the older cars aren’t running.

Older cages are a real pain to update.
Rallying is stupid expensive, including new belts, HANS and helmets.
These days it is very difficult to have both time and money.

I don’t see any feasible solutions unfortunately. I will be back out on stage as soon as possible but only because I am fortunate enough to to navigate for a really good team. My 1991 Golf will still be sitting in the garage.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Robert, you are absolutely right.

I am realizing that one of the suggestions here is essentially to relax safety rules for older cars so they can be run as-is rather than re-caged, etc. I think this is a non-starter with the sanctioning bodies so forget it...

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____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

CARS still allows grandfathered cages with minor updates.

I know someone was looking at a ‘gentlemen’s historic’ class with reduced safety gear and a max speed on stage. (RallySafe can be used to give automated overspeed warnings.)
It would be a class that is openly about bringing cars out for fun rather than true competition.

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First Rally attended (2000), First Rally competed in (2001)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Driver (8), Co-Driver (47), Drivers (19)
Clerk (29), Steward (1), Official (17), Volunteer (5)
WRC Spectator (1), WRC Photographer (6), WRC Observer (4)
Rallies attended (120) Countries attended rallies in (11)
Last Updated, May30, 2022



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2020 09:44PM by Not Trolling.

Quote
Not Trolling
It would be a class that is openly about bringing ads out for fun rather than true competition.

Yet another contradiction to add to the original post which was about how terribly fast the R2 cars are and how old 2wd cars simply can't compete. MattP's proposal was to make a place where old 2wd could compete amongst themselves without those pesky fast(???) Fiestas.

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____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

Quote
Josh Wimpey

Quote
Not Trolling
It would be a class that is openly about bringing ads cars out for fun rather than true competition.

Yet another contradiction to add to the original post which was about how terribly fast the R2 cars are and how old 2wd cars simply can't compete. MattP's proposal was to make a place where old 2wd could compete amongst themselves without those pesky fast(???) Fiestas.

Fixed the typo... meant to say cars, not ads.
But also to be clear, that comment was about an entirely different idea... not Matt's. At that idea is aimed more at rally cars that simply aren't being entered and wouldn't be entered without a class accommodating them as they are. For people who appreciate the cars more than they care about competition. Something brisker than a TSD but not as risky as flat out stage rally.

The thing about the Fiestas is that they just plain work well straight out of the box, are over engineered and can run a full season with only minor re-prep - normally - and have a bunch of basic set-up tuning from motorsports engineers who have developed and worked with all sorts of real-world examples. Their appeal is that they are easy, fast, and reliable. Not everyone wants to develop their own car, even cars that have a good amount of supporting data behind them.

Of course, in north america particularly, it is the driver and not the car that will make the biggest difference in results... when you have someone like Brendan Reeves come over and school just about everyone in the RA events in a normally aspirated R2, that is mostly driver for sure. But, we've also seen drivers change from something else to an R2 and leap up the final standings at events.

But... whatever. Like I say, if there are people out there who feel they can't compete against the R2s and Matt's idea for an overlay class will bring them onto the entry lists, why should I tell them they are wrong? Let them find that out for themselves.

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First Rally attended (2000), First Rally competed in (2001)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Driver (8), Co-Driver (47), Drivers (19)
Clerk (29), Steward (1), Official (17), Volunteer (5)
WRC Spectator (1), WRC Photographer (6), WRC Observer (4)
Rallies attended (120) Countries attended rallies in (11)
Last Updated, May30, 2022



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2020 10:03PM by Not Trolling.

As someone who is updating an older rwd scca datsun to rally spec...

The costs of safety devices are outrageous. Hans devices are expensive but going down in price thankfully.

and you need 2 of everything in rally. 2 new seats, 2 new helmets, 2 new belts, 2 new suits, 2 new sets of gloves and shoes, 2 new nets if your car doesn’t have laminated side glass. A new fuel cell. New fuel pump wiring to have it automatically turn off.

Updating an older DOM cage isn’t too bad, adding some sill bars, an A pillar reinforcement, changing the upper door bar and adding an X in the halo. Not too bad. Don’t even require any bending!

Unless I’m just way off and my SCCA log book showing the cage is in fact DOM isn’t going to be enough to get a new log book issued after I update it.

The entry fees in the west and pnw are sickening. $650+.
I think the entry fees are the #1 reason why people don’t rally.
+Excessive safety devices even for dead slow cars like a stock Honda Fit etc.

Rally tires are very pricey. Most people don’t know that they will last you at least a year if you have a tight LSD.

and with everyone online screaming “you’ll DNF! Everything will break into a million pieces if you even attempt to drive on a gravel road!” People assume it’s just impossible. I’ve heard so many people at circuits say they’d like to rally, but it’s not worth “destroying my car”. Or that the cage and safety requirements cost as much as a year of track days.

A lot of people assume you are required to go to a rally school and get a license.

(And some of the minimum weights are pretty high for a lot of vintage cars so I personally can see why someone with a prepped ae86, Datsun, etc would not be interested in adding 300lbs of ballast)

Limited 2WD ARA rules: 2500cc, minimum weight 2200lbs.
Open 2wd 1800cc 1950lbs.
Any rotary is forced into open 2wd minimum weight 2200lbs.

I’m making sure it’s legal for hill climbs and other racing classes as well so I can at least spread the fun around.

Oh, the new rules around fire systems is basically the final straw in my eyes. ARA requiring a system now and they have to be re-certified every 2 years. The lists of why people can’t or don’t want to rally gets long the more and more safety rules are added. It just doesn’t make sense that it will be sustainable forever unless it gets cheaper to actually get your car to the starting line.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2021 09:53PM by CatDaddy1200.

anyway, we do need some little historic class organization.

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

CARS announced a classic class and championshipt that even has (sponsored) prize money at each event...

https://carsrally.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Announcement-2023-02-Classic-Rally.pdf

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First Rally attended (2000), First Rally competed in (2001)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Driver (8), Co-Driver (47), Drivers (19)
Clerk (29), Steward (1), Official (17), Volunteer (5)
WRC Spectator (1), WRC Photographer (6), WRC Observer (4)
Rallies attended (120) Countries attended rallies in (11)
Last Updated, May30, 2022