How to not get emotionally attatched to your car

If you are getting ready for some rally down time for moving, it's a no-brainer: sell the Talon. If you were ready to campaign the rest of '08, then put the effort into the Talon and hold the XR4ti.

The Ford will be simpler in the long run; why do you think we hold onto the Starion? We know it inside and out, it's rugged and simple, etc.

Regards, and congrats on the good run at SB!
Mark B.

wvonkessler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Technically the BMW E30s aren't being actively campaigned in Finland. And haven't been. The E36, yes, the E30, no.

---

Grant Hughes

Go to that first link. Pull up the first set of pics. OMG, an E30!



It does look like they are into the E36 generation. All the same, I stand by my points above about cheap and easy.

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2008 07:05AM by wvonkessler.

Damn it, no model years listed. But okay, so there is one in Finland. There's also one here in Colorado. These are still fun to look at.
2007
http://www.autourheilu.fi/attachements/2007-09-30T23-10-21255.pdf
2006
http://www.autourheilu.fi/attachements/2006-10-09T10-38-5111.pdf
2005
http://www.autourheilu.fi/attachements/2005-10-10T11-54-5614.pdf
2004
http://www.autourheilu.fi/attachements/2004-09-23T09-52-2814.pdf
2003
http://www.autourheilu.fi/attachements/2003-10-13T09-40-3014.pdf

---

Grant Hughes

Ok, as a fellow DSM'er, I'll stick my neck out and chime in.

I'm not giving up on the DSM yet.
The engine is strong, and with the TRE tranny it's a good combination.
It's heavy, I've been working this past year on shaving any weight possible off of the car, but I've still got a ways to go. Last year at RWV, the car topped 3000#.

While it would be an engineering nightmare for someone with limited skills as myself, I wonder about relocating the engine towards the passenger side and rear.

Yes, the suspension travel sucks. We wacked the !! on SS1 at Sandblast hard enough to knock the notes out of Jonathan's hands.
I'm trying to dream up something radical for additional travel, like the elevated top strut mounts a-la Rod Millens 4x4 RX-7 of the 80's.

While we currently have Hotbits, I'm still considering going green, and seeing if JVL will accept the DSM challenge......

The DSM isn't a lost cause, but I have a DSM street car and a rally car.
Having two rally cars would be a huge pain!

The Xratty sure is cool though. Mothra's car sounds like a jet, from the co-driver's seat!

Kent,

I like your car...esp the roof ornament!

I don't think DSM's are as bad as they are made out to be either. Certainly the motor is strong (although I've had troubles with mine). The TRE tranny I have isn't bad. Never broken the transaxle.

Basically you get an AWD (or in your case FWD) turbo cabable of being more powerful than the Subies.

there are some limitations hard to get around. Head room and vis isn't possible to fix. Suspension travel is limited...that's a tough one.

The motor and tranny are a real pain to work on. I've simplified a bunch and it's still tough.

Are those deal breakers? I don't think so. I would like to see my car enjoyed by another rallyer...I just want to do the RWD thing mostly.

I am attatched to the DSM. I've spent alot of time on that car and it's going to be tough to see it go!

kentmdavis Wrote:
--
> Yes, the suspension travel sucks. We wacked the
> !! on SS1 at Sandblast hard enough to knock the
> notes out of Jonathan's hands.
> I'm trying to dream up something radical for
> additional travel, like the elevated top strut
> mounts a-la Rod Millens 4x4 RX-7 of the 80's.

That's probably a good idea, and its very common in much of the world.
>
> While we currently have Hotbits, I'm still
> considering going green, and seeing if JVL will
> accept the DSM challenge......

Sure, why not! I poke fun at ALL cars, but I poke fun at the attitudes of the OWNERS of some cars more----cause they need a prod now and then, but I work on everything!

I've already have studied the Misterbitchi Fatgirl stuff cause several friends have the Gaylants and the DSM ain't much different and I reckon the biggest limitation is going to be DRIVESHAFT LENGTHS.


The buggers have about 155mm travel in front and that is just too short.

But the arc the suspenders moves in is a big deal so somebody, probably ones of youse wise guys Misterbitchy types, is going to have to mount up a strut with no spring AND A DRIVESHAFT with the grease cleaned out and the boot peeled back AND DO A STUDY OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LET THE SUSPENDERS MOVE AN EXTRA INCH or INCH AND A HALF

The thing we have to see is if the axle is pulling on the CV joint at the extremes.
>
> The DSM isn't a lost cause, but I have a DSM
> street car and a rally car.
> Having two rally cars would be a huge pain!

Not at all a lost cause, but there ARE some things that would make me look to re-shell into a Gaylant should a big prang occur.

OK the REARS, we can do some things on the rears but I have to see photos of the mounting points, and dimensions of everything. I hope you're willing to weld a bit, you can save a lot of dough and make the parts live longer if you're willing to weld just a little.
>
> The Xratty sure is cool though. Mothra's car
> sounds like a jet, from the co-driver's seat!

You know I really love my old Saab which I've had since 1985 and has been the only car I've competed in and is currently rebuild with a bigger (1965cc) and better motor, all freshened gearbox, revised cage, and a further stiffened chassi.

But I know that I personally can drive a near bog standard street car Xratty as quick in the woods as I can my Saab and I say "It has to be a pretty damn good car to lure me out of my Saab"

Plenty of torque stock, buckets more with a 3" exhaust, cheap parts, and something that most of the stuff we can afford doesn't have and a huge advantage over many: Quick accurate steering stock (not as quick and accurate as the Saab at 2,2 turns) but very very good steering and 2,6 turns STOCK which is good enough.

Still tho lets talk aboyt MORE TRAVEL in the DSM thang!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

JVL Wrote:
>The buggers have about 155mm travel in front and that is just too short.

>But the arc the suspenders moves in is a big deal so somebody, probably ones of >youse wise guys Misterbitchy types, is going to have to mount up a strut with no >spring AND A DRIVESHAFT with the grease cleaned out and the boot peeled back AND DO >A STUDY OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LET THE SUSPENDERS MOVE AN EXTRA INCH or INCH AND A >HALF

>The thing we have to see is if the axle is pulling on the CV joint at the extremes.

This weekend, I'm planning on measuring the current:
weighted droop vs bump travel
Total bump travel available
total droop travel available
Weighted spring and helper length
Coil-bind length of the spring
Motion ratio of your suspension
current droop limitations.

Thanks for the axle idea. Considering all of my past axle/CV issues, I should've thought of verifying axle and CV movement.
I've got plenty of extra axles around. I'll mount one up for the tests.

Any input on how much axle 'pulling' is too much?
I would assume that the ball/cage assembly needs to not move past some critical point. (plus some safety margin)

Thanks,
Kent

ps. Sorry for the thread hijack. I've just been thinking a lot about these things since Sandblast.

Figuring out the degrees of motion and length of the shortest halfshaft allows one to calculate maximum possible travel also?

The easiest way to figure out your max CV angle/degrees is to put your car on jackstands (on level ground) and use a magnetic angle finder. Set your suspension at full droop (without struts attached) then set the angle finder on the top or bottom of the halfshaft. Length of shaft gives you the hypotenuse. Pythagoras and/or Sohcahtoa will give you one half of the travel.

For us XR owners, the VW buses have a CV joint that allows 4 extra degrees of travel and have the same bolt pattern as the Merkur CV (18 deg on Type 2/Merkur vs. 22 degrees on Type 4). But a different spline count (25 Merkur vs. 33 VW). Custom shafts of the correct length would be a way to get additional travel in the rear of the Merkur. Apparently there's lots of chromoly custom VW shafts available in the world from around $150 per pair, but I've never looked much.

---

Grant Hughes

kentmdavis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> This weekend, I'm planning on measuring the
> current:
> weighted droop vs bump travel
> Total bump travel available
> total droop travel available
> Weighted spring and helper length
> Coil-bind length of the spring
> Motion ratio of your suspension
> current droop limitations.

sounds good, maybe subtract or remove the bump rubbers.
take photos of everything, and post them so everybody can see, there are some sharp guys here now and a lot of guys in the same boat.
>
> Thanks for the axle idea. Considering all of my
> past axle/CV issues, I should've thought of
> verifying axle and CV movement.
> I've got plenty of extra axles around. I'll mount
> one up for the tests.
>
> Any input on how much axle 'pulling' is too much?
> I would assume that the ball/cage assembly needs
> to not move past some critical point. (plus some
> safety margin)

let me see if I can find a number on that.
>
> Thanks,
> Kent
>
> ps. Sorry for the thread hijack. I've just been
> thinking a lot about these things since Sandblast.

Dude, this is Rallyanarchy, no such thing as a threadjack in the Anarchy world, and no apologies unless you were trying to be a asswipe and you weren't.

Besides you're a MODERATOR! Go and whack yer pee-pee on your own time.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

If nobody jumps on this picture request in the next couple weeks, I will certainly do it. Don't have an angle doo-hickey thing, but I've got access to a killer DSLR and would be happy to snap some pictures of the corners with rulers and whatnot in position to offer useful info.

If I'm gonna "fawk it more vigorously," I'm gonna need something SooperBitchin under those soon-to-be-bent-back-into-place fenders!

---

Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

A quick look this morning found four E36 BMWs for under $2,000. Only one had a salvage title, the rest were high miles. Lowest was $1200. That's the future in my book. If I didn't have this 25 year old piece of shit that has every piece of rubber and wire nearly rotten in it with about $20K already invested in it I'd be building one of those personally.
The Merkurs are good rally platforms, but I find that pretty much every single thing in the car is needing some kind of work and there are inherent disadvantage to a car that's been around almost as long as I have been.

---

Grant Hughes

Just go outside and kick it.
Do that at least once a day.

---

Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

M50 mill is sweet! So is the S50.

Grant, I think I found out the reason that there are more E36s than E30s in Finnish F-Cup, and I don't think it is because of chassis/suspension issues.

I noticed that most of the E30s run are M3s (S14 engine). Run about what, 250hp? 325i is the M20 engine which is 2 valves per, and really maxes out at around 200hp at the crank, maybe a little higher after you mess with it, unless you get really exotic.

E36 makes 180 plus wheel horsepower out of the box with the M50.

The rules on the Finnish motorsport site states that for F-Cup, the block must be that which came in the vehicle.

So my theory, at least, is that because the M20 engined E30 is a slug (comparatively) to the M50 engined E36, that is why you find more E36s.

But what do I know.

Looks like we are picking up two E30s which are partially prepped.

Wilson

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

We dont have this car in the states but I know of an e46 325ti compact buying built at the moment for the South African rally scene. Are the 318ti's any good of a chassis at all? I know the 1.9l motor is a sad case but what about the car it self?