Is WRC gonna make the move to 2wd?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65678


Curious to see what comes of this...

Rabin

That is interesting.. It would be a tough sell though to force 2wd AND Rwd though I would think.. That being said, the only way WRC could get more boring would be slower cars that don't slide around much

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

so whats the point? why not just add rwd cars to their program? score has multiple classes for different styles of trucks, why can't the wrc do the same with rally cars?

tmadison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so whats the point? why not just add rwd cars to
> their program? score has multiple classes for
> different styles of trucks, why can't the wrc do
> the same with rally cars?

I think the major points are:

A. cost to participate and limited manufacturer participation

B. average speeds and likelihood of injury

C. relative boringness of cars that are glued to the ground

what's your point?

Edit: I should add that the WRC has been for a while been a 1.75 pony show. This year may even be a 1.5 pony show. Cheaper participation would likely make things more exciting as there could possibly be more potential winners.. instead of whether Loeb wins or screws up.

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2008 07:22PM by hudson.

The World Rally Cars are amazing pieces of machinery. But they have less than diddly to do with street cars nowadays. I understand the WRC Focus is built from largely flat panels on a jig, not from a production shell, so although all the parts are there, not the same as being built from a full shell.

IMHO, if they want to stay AWD (and hey, I'd like to see Subaru in at the top level), a change back to the Grp N/A type setup of 15 years ago would be best. I do like the idea of the rally car being something that can be built from the street car. I don't get that feeling with the current crop of World Rally cars.

---

Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

"Front-wheel-drive is totally unspectacular,"

Wow what a moron, hasn't he ever seen any loose surface FWD cars driven on the limit... I"m sure Stig could show him a thing or 2!

"A decision is expected at the next meeting of the World Motorsport Council on March 26, and Taylor thinks Subaru would walk away from the WRC if they couldn't field their four-wheel-drive cars."

""Subaru's market is four-wheel-drive," he told Autosport. "If this change came it could be the trigger for Subaru to pull out, they wouldn't be remotely interested in it.""

I wouldn't be surprised if Subaru walks anyway, they haven't done well for sometime in the WRC.

""Two-wheel-drive cars would certainly corner slower, so would be safer. It's safe to say two-wheel-drive would tick all the boxes Mr Mosley has asked to be ticked.""

Slower cornering? it would be interesting to see actual data on this...

Max Mosley, wish he was gone, but then the one that replaces him might be worse, like David Richards...

---

As always IMHO

SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
SAAB 99, SAAB 850
SAAB V4, SAAB 99T

I'm an old RWD guy,but when I see Nate Tennis, Bottles or Burress throw a FWD at a corner..sideways..like there is no tomorrow,I think it is pretty spectacular. I could never drive like that.

SEANT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Front-wheel-drive is totally unspectacular,"
>
> Wow what a moron, hasn't he ever seen any loose
> surface FWD cars driven on the limit... I"m sure
> Stig could show him a thing or 2!

I agree with bot you and Heymagic.. FWD can be spectacular for sure

> I wouldn't be surprised if Subaru walks anyway,
> they haven't done well for sometime in the WRC.

That's polite

> Slower cornering? it would be interesting to see
> actual data on this...

Definitely slower exits.

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

Front Wheel Drive is not all that fun to watch unless it is being driven with vigor, RWD always looks good even when going not so fast. AWD can sometimes look OK at only half fast but not in WRC cars - they are no fun to watch at all anymore.

I think Nate made FWD look best here in the NW - the Saab is always sideways.

Do not forget to add Nat Stow to the list of people that have made FWD look fun.

---

In the long run reality always wins.

derek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Front Wheel Drive is not all that fun to watch
> unless it is being driven with vigor, RWD always
> looks good even when going not so fast. AWD can
> sometimes look OK at only half fast but not in WRC
> cars - they are no fun to watch at all anymore.

I agree.. I watch WRC habitually.. but only for the shear insane speeds and hopefully for a battle for some of the top spots.

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

Sometimes sentimental reasons for not changing need to be overcome. Yes Subaru has been a long term supporter of Rally but can anyone really justify holding back the whole program because one supporter will walk?

Kinda makes me think of the US, clearly the current model is not working so well but no one wants to make a big change in the program because we are afraid of lossing the dying program we have.

Sometimes things have to get a lot worse before they can finally be reborn. The WRC and the US programs have been on the sick bed for some time now, more of the same is unlikely to somehow produce a different result.

FWD cars driven at the limit are a hell of a lot of fun to watch, I have some video of the 1997 F2 cup in England and wow the cars are all over the place even on pavement they have plenty of power (230 HP) so they are always fighting for grip and not getting it. Non of the calm perfection of Lobes in car, the wheels are being sawed at, the cars dart side to side on the straights, the torque steer pulls the car toward the ditches on the exits. Good stuff.

---

In the long run reality always wins.

Now that AWD cars are downright commonplace, they want to go back to 2WD.

That's hilarious right there...

Also hilarious is the idea that FWD is boring to watch. If FWD is boring than AWD induces coma.

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Banning electronic diff control could be a good start...

I'm not following the WRC as I used to since I find it too boring to watch, so maybe they already banned that.

AWD can be fun to watch, even better than a RWD in the hands of the correct driver, but being spectacular not always mean fast and now the top WRC want to win on top of everything else.

I know for sure, sometimes, if you want to win you have to be very boring to watch... I remember one time at a rally-cross, it was so slippery (ice all around and no studs) that any drifting attempt would make you loose time or put you in a snowbank. One spectator said while I was passing "well he's not close to the podium for sure", well, at that time I was second, only 10 secs away from first. But I was a bit too aggressive on the next stage and got stuck for 6 minutes in a snowbank!

---

Francois

What did they not have at the start of the GpA period that they have today.

Good gearboxes, good diffs, and good suspension.

Off road trucks have suspension travel limitations, why not WRC?

Stick 'em with 175mm travel. That will slow them down in a way that is "crowd pleasing" instead of cutting acceleration.

Just a thought...

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Pete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What did they not have at the start of the GpA
> period that they have today.
>
> Good gearboxes, good diffs, and good suspension.
>
> Off road trucks have suspension travel
> limitations, why not WRC?
>
> Stick 'em with 175mm travel. That will slow them
> down in a way that is "crowd pleasing" instead of
> cutting acceleration.
>
> Just a thought...
>
> Pete Remner
> Cleveland, Ohio
>
> 1984 RX-7 reshell
> 1978

I had the same thought Pete. I haven't seen an official spec. lately but on the last generation WRC Focus the travel was an "undisclosed" number over 210mm. It seems to make for a much smoother more boring to watch ride.

Tim